Author Topic: Another customer service horror story  (Read 6608 times)

Perd Hapley

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Another customer service horror story
« on: July 28, 2008, 12:41:01 PM »
I figured since everybody else is posting threads like this...

National City Bank

My first problem with them was that it took them a month or two to add my wife to the checking account that I set up with them.  I had to go to the branch about four or five times to get it straightened out.

I also found that the web site would very rarely allow me to see the details of my bank account activity.  I could see the balance, but about 80-90% of the time, it would not show me withdrawals, deposits, checks, etc.

I've switched banks. 
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Scout26

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2008, 02:02:02 PM »
I figured since everybody else is posting threads like this...

National City Bank

My first problem with them was that it took them a month or two to add my wife to the checking account that I set up with them.  I had to go to the branch about four or five times to get it straightened out.

I also found that the web site would very rarely allow me to see the details of my bank account activity.  I could see the balance, but about 80-90% of the time, it would not show me withdrawals, deposits, checks, etc.

Just send me your account info and I'll take care of everything for you.  grin
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taurusowner

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 02:12:05 PM »
Banks very often play with dates to make you think you have different amounts of money than you really have in an effort to cause you to bounce or overdraft.  Say you deposit money through an ATM after the bank is closed, then go use your card to make a purchase.  Each transaction has 2 times.  The time when the transaction was actually made, and the time it cleared the system.  So while your deposit time was in the evening, the clear time is sometime the next business day.  The purchase time has the time you made the purchase, we'll say the same evening, and the time the transaction goes through their credit system, sometimes up to a week later.

A common bank trick is to use the clear time as the effective time of deposits but the transaction time as the effective time for purchases.  So even if you physically deposit money before you make any purchases, if any transaction happens before the deposit clears, (even if the transaction hasn't cleared) you could get an overdraft even though you never actually spent money you didn't have.  This would be akin to a check bouncing because you didn't have the money in the account at the time you put pen to check instead of when the check receiver tries to cash it.

Now one defense of this might be "it's to prevent fraud and people overspending with money they don't have and disappearing".  That may be true, but the right thing to do would be to not give you an overdraft if you are indeed an honest customer who in fact did deposit enough money before you made the purchase.  But banks don't do that, mainly for the hefty overdraft "processing fee" that is 100% profit for them because of a few twisty fine print rules.

Balog

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 02:15:12 PM »
That's why we never spend money until it shows up on our online statement as having cleared. If you can't be bothered to do that, when you know the way the system works.....
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taurusowner

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 02:19:39 PM »
Compliance with rules and whether the rules are right are not symbiotic.  One can follow the rules to the letter and still not agree.  No one said no one could not be bothered to do anything except you.

Balog

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 02:40:53 PM »
Compliance with rules and whether the rules are right are not symbiotic.  One can follow the rules to the letter and still not agree.  No one said no one could not be bothered to do anything except you.

Not crediting funds to an account until those funds are processed seems a good and logical thing to do. Ditto for debiting an account at the time the purchase is made. It's not a secret conspiracy by the eeevvvviiiilllll banks to screw poor hard working Americans out of $25.

Anyone who spends money before they know if it's available is a flaming idiot and deserves whatever they get. Unless you need to cover some sort of massive and unexpected medical emergency or something, it shouldn't be an issue. And if you have to drain your bank account to pay the hospital that $25 is hardly your biggest problem.

Just like credit card debt. Some people get it because they have large unavoidable expenses that crop up suddenly. But the vast majority of people with serious CC debt got there because they were stupid and irresponsible. But hell, it's not their fault right? Just like the poor people who bought houses on their $25k salary and are now being foreclosed on. If only those damn evil banks hadn't sent a SWAT-style tactical team into their house in the dead of night, kidnapped them, and forced them to sign a mortgage! Which they could probably pay off if those damn evil credit card companies hadn't forced them to buy ipods and laptops they couldn't afford!

When we got married my wife and I both made <$10 an hour and we made it with no CC debt and didn't default on her student loan. My sister makes maybe $30k a year, but because she has excellent credit got a mortgage as "stated income" of +$60k. She's never been late on a house payment.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 03:26:05 PM »
Alright you two.  You're supposed to be angry with the bank, not with each other.   police
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taurusowner

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2008, 03:34:30 PM »
Compliance with rules and whether the rules are right are not symbiotic.  One can follow the rules to the letter and still not agree.  No one said no one could not be bothered to do anything except you.

Not crediting funds to an account until those funds are processed seems a good and logical thing to do. Ditto for debiting an account at the time the purchase is made. It's not a secret conspiracy by the eeevvvviiiilllll banks to screw poor hard working Americans out of $25.

Anyone who spends money before they know if it's available is a flaming idiot and deserves whatever they get. Unless you need to cover some sort of massive and unexpected medical emergency or something, it shouldn't be an issue. And if you have to drain your bank account to pay the hospital that $25 is hardly your biggest problem.

Just like credit card debt. Some people get it because they have large unavoidable expenses that crop up suddenly. But the vast majority of people with serious CC debt got there because they were stupid and irresponsible. But hell, it's not their fault right? Just like the poor people who bought houses on their $25k salary and are now being foreclosed on. If only those damn evil banks hadn't sent a SWAT-style tactical team into their house in the dead of night, kidnapped them, and forced them to sign a mortgage! Which they could probably pay off if those damn evil credit card companies hadn't forced them to buy ipods and laptops they couldn't afford!

When we got married my wife and I both made <$10 an hour and we made it with no CC debt and didn't default on her student loan. My sister makes maybe $30k a year, but because she has excellent credit got a mortgage as "stated income" of +$60k. She's never been late on a house payment.

You are totally jumping down my throat for no reason.  Can you give the assumptions and putting words in my mouth a break for a bit.

I never said any of that.  You did.

I simply pointed out that once both transactions go through and are in the clear, it's not good customer service to charge an overdraft fee when the customer, in the end, did not actually spend money they did not have.

All the rest of the stuff about credit cards and debt "not being their fault" is all on you.

pappy

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 03:43:29 PM »
It is pretty common practice at banks to pull stuff like that. I know my bank (Compass) posts all the days transactions at the end of the day. Problem is, they do all the debits first, then the deposits. So, if you deposit your check at 9AM and use your debit card at 4PM, they hit you with overdraft fees. Not fair, but I've learned to not spend any of a deposit until the next day when I know it's in there.  angry

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 03:55:49 PM »
Banks very often play with dates to make you think you have different amounts of money than you really have in an effort to cause you to bounce or overdraft.  Say you deposit money through an ATM after the bank is closed, then go use your card to make a purchase.  Each transaction has 2 times.  The time when the transaction was actually made, and the time it cleared the system.  So while your deposit time was in the evening, the clear time is sometime the next business day.  The purchase time has the time you made the purchase, we'll say the same evening, and the time the transaction goes through their credit system, sometimes up to a week later.

A common bank trick is to use the clear time as the effective time of deposits but the transaction time as the effective time for purchases.  So even if you physically deposit money before you make any purchases, if any transaction happens before the deposit clears, (even if the transaction hasn't cleared) you could get an overdraft even though you never actually spent money you didn't have.  This would be akin to a check bouncing because you didn't have the money in the account at the time you put pen to check instead of when the check receiver tries to cash it.

Now one defense of this might be "it's to prevent fraud and people overspending with money they don't have and disappearing".  That may be true, but the right thing to do would be to not give you an overdraft if you are indeed an honest customer who in fact did deposit enough money before you made the purchase.  But banks don't do that, mainly for the hefty overdraft "processing fee" that is 100% profit for them because of a few twisty fine print rules.
I used to have accounts at National City.  They played these games on me exactly as you described.  They made me bounce two checks this way, and charged me nearly $200 in fees for it, before I managed to escape their clutches. 

Actually, now that I think about it, it was worse than you describe. 

NatCity maintains two different account balances for you.  One is a balance showing all deposits and debits posted in a timely fashion, within a day or two, the way you'd balance your checkbook.  The other balance shows debits posted immediately, but deposits delayed by a week or two.  Naturally, this second balance tends to show a lower account balance, due to their delays in posting your deposits. 

By timing the way the deposits are posted, they can induce you to overdraw your account.  They show you the first balance whenever you query your account online or at an ATM, which shows a higher balance.  They figure your overdrafts by using the second, lower balance. 

I don't know if it's a common practice at all banks, but it's only been done to me by NatCity.  I've used a number of other banks over the years without any of these games.

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »
That's why we never spend money until it shows up on our online statement as having cleared. If you can't be bothered to do that, when you know the way the system works.....

Amen.   I don't know how other banks handle it, but I log in to my account daily, and it shows two balances- Current and Available.  Current includes all deposits; Available includes all cleared deposits. 

I don't send out one penny, by paper check or electronic transfer, unless I know it's available.  If your bank's website doesn't offer that info, it's time to switch banks.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 04:48:14 PM »
Oh, one other thing that I remember about the snakes that run NatCity.  After they screwed me on the overdraft thing for the second time I had opportunity to exchange words with a manger.  During that encounter it was admitted that NatCity doesn't stand behind the information they present to you online or through an ATM.  It seems they're free to amend, alter, delay, or outright lie when they tell you your account balances this way. 

Now, I suppose all banks put a CYA disclaimer on that sort of thing, just in case an honest mistake is made.  But NatCity takes that as license to show you incorrect, misleading, or anachronistic information deliberately, in the hopes of causing an overdraft.  Those fees are a prime revenue source for that bank.

I can sympathize with the people who say you shouldn't spend money from your account unless you know the money is actually in the account.  But it doesn't do you much good to check that deposits have cleared, when the bank isn't going to be honest or upfront with you about which of your deposits have cleared. 

Avoid that bank. 

RevDisk

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 05:03:29 PM »
I've switched banks. 

Not to threadjack, but does anyone recommend any good banks?

I have PSECU for my day to day stuff, but it offers very limited services as it's "branchless".   Plus it does not do VA home loans, which is what I'm leaning towards when I do get a mortgage.  I'm thinking of opening an account at another bank and use it just to hoard cash for my downpayment.  No credit or ATM cards, so I have to drive down to the bank to withdraw money.
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Scout26

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 06:23:11 PM »
I've switched banks. 

Not to threadjack, but does anyone recommend any good banks?


USAA Federal Savings Bank.  Earn interest on Checking accounts and they reimburse ATM fees.  Oh, and free checks for life.   Unless you get paid in cash, or deal with a lot of cash that you have to take to a bank, USAA is the way to go.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

K Frame

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 07:48:08 PM »
Revdisk,

Where do you live in Pennsylvania?

I still have my PSECU account from when I worked at the state back in the 1980s. I don't use the account much anymore now that I'm in Virginia and belong to Navy Federal.

While I'm not a big fan of banks, I still deal with a number of banks in Pennsylvania that offer very good customer service.

They're all small, community banks that have repeatedly rejected offers to be bought out by one of the big "screw the customer until his eyes bleed" banks.
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RevDisk

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 07:53:47 PM »
Quote
USAA Federal Savings Bank.  Earn interest on Checking accounts and they reimburse ATM fees.  Oh, and free checks for life.   Unless you get paid in cash, or deal with a lot of cash that you have to take to a bank, USAA is the way to go.


I use USAA for my auto insurance.  I don't think they have any physical branches in my area.  PSECU is great for anything not dealing with cash, in person services, or anything too fancy.  I've had zero problems with them, except for the limited number of services.  I highly recommend them.


Revdisk,

Where do you live in Pennsylvania?

I still have my PSECU account from when I worked at the state back in the 1980s. I don't use the account much anymore now that I'm in Virginia and belong to Navy Federal.

While I'm not a big fan of banks, I still deal with a number of banks in Pennsylvania that offer very good customer service.

They're all small, community banks that have repeatedly rejected offers to be bought out by one of the big "screw the customer until his eyes bleed" banks.

That's exactly what I'm looking for.  Especially any that are pleasant to deal with mortgage wise.   I live in southern Central PA, around Lancaster.
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K Frame

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2008, 08:06:54 PM »
OK, that's a little farther south and east than what I'm familiar with...

However...

Adams County National Bank has a good reputation.

The First National Bank of Marysville has always had a very solid reputation, but that's probably a lot farther out of your zone than you want to go.

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Antibubba

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2008, 09:27:41 PM »
Yeah, National City is the worst.  But as the designated scapegoat, you're supposed to suffer in silence.    angel
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2008, 04:25:50 AM »
No, as scapegoat, I just have to accept that my suffering is my own fault. 

The fellow I dealt with at Nat. City was a nice guy.  When I told him about my problems with the web site, he told me the company was paying all sorts of attention and time and money to do their "Points" program, but neglecting the web site issues, despite a lot of complaints. 
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mike

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2008, 04:59:01 AM »
Find a good credit union. Much better than banks!

Perd Hapley

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 05:08:35 AM »
I'm banking with a credit union now.  First Community.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 05:17:21 AM »
I originally got an account with Fleet, then BankBoston bought them. The SEC made them break up, and all former BankBoston customers became Fleet, while former Fleet customers became Sovereign.

I have no idea. They don't charge fees, though, and because I have direct deposit through Fidelity (they apparently really like that for some reason), they give me high interest checking and the gold cards and all.

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 05:59:00 AM »
I have been using Bank of America for years and never had an issue.  However, I still fill out the written check register in my check book.  My check book balance normally remains lower than my online balance due to checks not clearing yet.  That is the balance I use to determine if I have money.  I put debit expenses, corrections, online payments, and everything in there.  I also typically don't let the balance fall below $1000.  Setting up a hard floor for yourself that is above zero is probably the best thing you can do.  Also, you can arbitrarily subtract $100 or more from your check book register so your running balance will always be $100 lower than actual. 

BofA's online system normally shows debits and deposits as pending until they clear.  However, I don't use night deposit or ATM deposits.  I prefer to stop by on Saturday morning or lunch and get a receipt back when I make a deposit.  Maybe I am paranoid.  Work does direct deposit so it is often not an issue. 

I used to run a low balance when I was in college, but I kept an up to date manual check register and that kept me out of trouble. 
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mtnbkr

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2008, 06:16:39 AM »
Mech, I'm with Bank of America as well with no issues.  I use my checkcard almost exclusively and even then, my check register reports a lower numbe than the web site. 

FWIW, BoA is blazing fast reporting transactions of all kinds.  The only ones that run slow are checks I deposit from sources I've never used before.  That first check will take a few days, but repeats or checks from sources that other customers use as well (large companies for example) go through quickly.

Chris

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Re: Another customer service horror story
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2008, 06:18:46 AM »
I use BofA as well, and never had a problem with them.  I also don't get fined for overdrafts (I think that was part of my Student checking account package).
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