Market Backlash against Detroit?

[AZRedhawk44]

Considering the fact that GM/Dodge-Chrysler/Ford was kept afloat by all of us in flyover America that actually like the products they make... and two of those companies are now going to be government/union/foreign controlled...

Do you intend to boycott GM or Chrysler products in the future?

Personally, I'm going to switch from Dodge to Ford when my truck no longer does what I need it to do.  As long as Ford stays above water, I mean.  Otherwise I'll probably bounce to Toyota for my truck needs.

I refuse to feed a socialist Union coup.

[El Tejon]

I soooo liked the Dodge Charger.

Any alternatives on the Dodge Charger?  Mid-sized car with big engine, what the Europeans call a "toruing car". 

Looking at a Toyota pick-up with crew cab.  Useful for hauling stuff and people.

[Nick1911]

Once I get the Mustang running (bought cheap with engine problems), ALL of our vehicles will be Ford products.

As we typically buy used, this is more of a function of economics then politics, though.

[41magsnub]

I don't plan to be in the market for a new car for a long time so I guess I am boycotting all of them!

[makattak]

I had planned on looking for only a "foreign" car.

Ford's showing a little backbone has made me consider to continue to buy Ford products.

I'll never buy another GM or a Chrysler, though.

[Werewolf]

Considering the fact that GM/Dodge-Chrysler/Ford was kept afloat by all of us in flyover America that actually like the products they make... and two of those companies are now going to be government/union/foreign controlled...

Do you intend to boycott GM or Chrysler products in the future?

Personally, I'm going to switch from Dodge to Ford when my truck no longer does what I need it to do.  As long as Ford stays above water, I mean.  Otherwise I'll probably bounce to Toyota for my truck needs.

I refuse to feed a socialist Union coup.

Well - I would - except I currently own two Chrysler products; a Town and Country van and a PT Cruiser. Super good cars, love 'em.

It is a given that I will never ever buy another car from Chrysler as long as they are owned by the UAW, and the US goobermint. Except those made in Germany, I've never been terribly enamored with euro manufactured cars so the Fiat part isn't a plus either.

[Balog]

Well, it's not like I'd have bought anything from them before all this, so.....

[charby]

I soooo liked the Dodge Charger.

Any alternatives on the Dodge Charger?  Mid-sized car with big engine, what the Europeans call a "toruing car". 

Looking at a Toyota pick-up with crew cab.  Useful for hauling stuff and people.

I tested a new Toyota Tacoma 4 door this weekend. Freaking tiny on the inside. I feel bad for anyone who needs to sit in the backseat if I'm the driver.

I might have to consider a full size pickup

[El Tejon]

Hmmm, I've never owed a pick up in my life.   Maybe now in the time. 

Smigel has one of those Toyota TRO trucks.

I'll talk to him tomorrow night at Wing Chun.

[freedom lover]

I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.

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[Nick1911]

Well, what vintage Fords do you want to know about?

I've had these Fords:

1989 Ford Crown Vic
1995 Ford Escort
1998 Ford Mustang
1995 Ford F250

I'll add:

The 80's stuff was pretty outdated, IMO.  Pushrod engines and the like.

The 90's stuff was pretty decent.  When needed, parts were cheap and available. 

The new stuff feels pretty darn solid.  The new Ford's I've driven felt great, IMO.

An older car's reliability has much, much more to do with maintenance history then it does with brand within the same class, though.  My truck has over 220,000 miles on it - I think nothing of hauling a car down the interstate with it.

[BryanP]

I have no plans to get rid of a perfectly good paid-for GM sedan (2003 Impala).  With my driving habits I expect it will last me another 10 years.  We'll see what the world looks like then.

[charby]

I had a 89 Mustang GT. Weak point was the AOD transmission.

I had a 73 F-150. It was a finiky 302, always tuning it.

I had a 84 Bronco with 275K on the clock. 300 six with a 4 speed transmission. I got rid of it when the valve seats went. Figured the repair weren't worth the price of the vehicle.

I'd buy another Ford and not regret the decision. I have been looking at F-150 or F-250 4x4 supercabs lately.

[Racehorse]

I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.

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Older Fords (late 70s, 80s, or early 90s) are crap, in my experience, except for the trucks. The newer Fords, though, are pretty good. I have a 2001 Mercury Cougar with 100,000 miles on it, and I've only had one real problem with it (the emergency brake sticks). Other than that, it's been a great car and totally reliable. My understanding is that some of the newest models are even better.

The trucks have been pretty good for a while. Consumer Reports rates several different models of Ford trucks with above average reliability on par with Toyota trucks, if I'm remembering right.

[freedom lover]

Well, what vintage Fords do you want to know about?

I'd like opinions on modern Mustangs too,  since the idea of being a sort-of greaser without the hair after I retire appeals to me. Of course, in 47 years they will probably be relics that cost five times as much as they currently do new. I'd also like to learn to drive a manual before they become much rarer on new cars then they are now. Hopefully I will be able to spend some time driving one with my dad someday.

[BridgeRunner]

Ford Focus ZX5, 130,000 miles on it.  No major repairs, no major problems.  Just drove it to New Orleans and back with nary a hiccup.  Solid.  Gives every indication of running well for a good while longer.  

Good buddy has a Mustang with similarly high miles.  She does abuse the crap out of that thing--pretty crazy driver--but it's solid.

[Nick1911]

I'd like opinions on modern Mustangs too,  since the idea of being a sort-of greaser without the hair after I retire appeals to me. Of course, in 47 years they will probably be relics that cost five times as much as they currently do new. I'd also like to learn to drive a manual before they become much rarer on new cars then they are now. Hopefully I will be able to spend some time driving one with my dad someday.

Well, my Mustang doesn't have any compression on cylinder #4. 

It's a little too... 'plasticity'.  The fifth generations are much better in this respect.

[AJ Dual]

With the Obama admin trying to use TARP leverage with the banks, and outright confiscate the Chrysler secured-bond holder's collateral through chicanery and give it to the UAW, both Chrysler and GM may go under.

Unless they're state-run industries from now on. The big players amongst the bond-market people will never touch a heavily unionized industry, or anyone playing footsie with the fed.gov again, or they'll charge confiscatory rates to assuage the risk of doing so.

Honestly, the only hope capitalisim in the U.S. has is that the banks and bond-holders are not the types to fool around, and they'll pay for the best legal minds in the country, and what Obama and Rattner are trying to do is so egregious, there isn't a Carter or Clinton apointee anywhere in the Federal Courts who can let it stand if Obama finds a malleable bankruptcy judge who'll let such socialist confiscation stand.

We knew it would be BAD, but I don't think any of us knew it would be THIS BAD. What the O admin is trying to pull here is unprecedented. Even FDR did not go this far. I don't think people understand how huge an outrage this is to basic property rights, because it's faceless investing entities and lots of boring finance-speak covering up what's happening here. This is literally "blood-in-the-streets"-worthy if it weren't for the media sweeping this under the rug, and the productive class's natural aversion to torches and pitchforks.

[Teknoid]

I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.

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In the last 35 years, I've had a whole lot less trouble from my Fords than I have GM and Chrysler products.
The Mountaineer I drive every day has 154K on it, and the engine has never been worked on. Basically just routine maintenance on the rest of it. The work van (E150) only has 87K on it, problem free.

The wife's Monte Carlo has screwy glitches in the computer that nobody can figure out (84K), and uses oil already. I should've traded that off instead of my Mustang (135K, no problems). The only BAD Ford I had was a '74 Maverick. I think I've only had one GOOD GM product ('72 Chevelle SS). The rest fell (or rusted)  apart. Only one decent Chrysler, too ('68 Super Bee). I had to rebuild it, but that could've been the previous owner's fault.

That said, GM and Chrysler are totally out of consideration now.

[Standing Wolf]

If it's union-made, I'm not buying it.

[dogmush]

I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.

Lets see,

My 2003 Cobra is modded, puts about 500 HP to the wheels, and I race it as well as drive it every day.  It has 46,000 miles and has needed a clutch, and alternator, oil changes and tires.  Of those only the alternator isn't directly atributable to modding it.

My wifes 07 Explorer just turned 20,000 and hasen't need anything but oil changes.  Completly trouble free.

My previous work truck was a 79 F-150 with a 460.  It was still running with 375,000 miles when I sold it, but it did have an engine rebuild and various fixes needed.  I'd say py the time it was 25 years old it was taking about $300 a year in parts, on top of normal maitnence (oil chnges, brakes, fluids) to keep running.

My current work truck is a 95 F150 with a 300 and 5-speed.  191,000 miles, runs fine.  I bought it about 20,000 ago and haven't put parts in it yet.  I'm pretty sure the 1-2 syncro is going though. Going to need to pull the trans eventually.

what others are saying is pretty accurate.  Pre 1980, expect some level of "restoration". 1980-~1992, were only so-so in their time, and are pretty long in the tooth now. ~1992-~2001 Quality was coming up, but these cars are getting old.  If well maintained they can be very good, but take it on a case by case basis. >~2002.  They're good cars, better the newer they are but you can get, with good maintence 200,000 trouble free miles out of these cars.

I wouldn't have bought GM or Chrysler anyway (excluding Jeeps.  I've always wanted one of those)  but I definatly won't now.

El Tejon.  If you liked the Charger check out the 2010 Taurus SHO.  http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/11/officially-official-2010-ford-taurus-sho/

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily

Found
On
Road
Dead

I drive a 2001 Ranger.  It has something north of 150k miles on it.  It still runs fine, and it's never needed any major repairs, never actually broken down.  It's needed lots of little stuff over the years, consumable stuff like brakes and belts and tires and whatnot.

[Gewehr98]

No Fords in my future, ever. 

From our '73 LTD wagon to my last '94 Explorer, I'm done with the brand.

If we don't buy a Smart ForTwo, I do look forward to seeing a Fiat 500 or Panda in my garage. 

[grampster]

 Fix It Again Tony.

The only reason the auto industry is in trouble is because nobody is buying vehicles.  All the loans and machinations in the world won't help as long as nobody is buying vehicles. duh!

I believe there is 4 trillion dollars (cash money) deposited in banks in the US of A.  If the political class were actually interested in ramping up the economy they would pass temporary legislation that gave access to the folks who have that cash, by suspending capital gains taxes on those cash investments, suspending income taxes and penalties on withdrawals from IRA's, 401k's etc as long as that cash was used to pay down debt or to purchase real property such as manufactured goods, land, homes, vehicles etc.  Of course that would free up cash to purchase repossessed houses and clean up the back log of property for sale.  It would also alow banks etc to loan money with proper down payments to reliable folks, thus ramping up the credit situation.

Obama's criminal betrayal of secured bond holders in the auto companies should get him arrested and jailed.  He is no better than the rest of the financial criminals. 

The silence in the media and in the halls of goobermint is deafening in this regard.  That should tell you something.

[ronnyreagan]

What the O admin is trying to pull here is unprecedented.

Isn't there plenty of precedent for this? I mean, I realize it's a lot of "boring finance-speak" but if you're looking for precedent on bankruptcy that's probably what you'll get.

The absolute priority rule is regularly modified in bankruptcy court, said Richard Hahn, co-chairman of the bankruptcy practice at Debevoise & Plimpton LLP, a New York law firm that isn’t involved in the Chrysler negotiations. Two- thirds of the lenders can force the holdouts to go along with them in a procedure called a cram-down.

“The U.S. bankruptcy code foresees the possibility that it may be necessary to vary from absolute priority, in particular when a two-thirds majority is convinced it makes legal or business sense,” Hahn said. “If the government has consents from 70 percent (which it does), that’s more than enough” to give equity to junior creditors.