1-way planetary colonization

[TommyGunn]

Isn't there also some form of 'controlled inbreeding', which prevents the more horrific genetic malformations that inbreeding causes?

You mean like Nancy Pelosi???

[AJ Dual]

You don't need to send more people to avoid inbreeding. Send sperm.

Wow...

The self-restraint to wait long enough to build up enough pressure to reach Mars... I don't think I'd be able to do that. 

And all the technical gear needed for the precise aim, that might kill the moment. Although if you've waited that long, you may not care. (shrug)

[Viking]

Those dang Martian rebels!   

Loonies strike at Earth!

[Tallpine]

Question:  Do you think planets should remain colonies of their respective nations, of earth as a whole, or if they can support it, entirely separate and sovereign worlds.

Just how would the supposed governing authority back on Terra enforce its rules?

One of the colonists smuggles a few MJ seeds and starts growing pot in the hydroponic garden... what are the feds going to do: spend a few billion to build another spaceship and then send a swat team out there...?    


As far as genetic variety, there are a number of different options, if you think "outside the box [book]" ...  two couples, that's four different genetic combinations, you know  

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Just how would the supposed governing authority back on Terra enforce its rules?

By withholding the vital supply shipments that are necessary for the survival of the colonists.

[S. Williamson]

http://xkcd.com/634/  

[taurusowner]

Just how would the supposed governing authority back on Terra enforce its rules?

One of the colonists smuggles a few MJ seeds and starts growing pot in the hydroponic garden... what are the feds going to do: spend a few billion to build another spaceship and then send a swat team out there...?    


As far as genetic variety, there are a number of different options, if you think "outside the box [book]" ...  two couples, that's four different genetic combinations, you know  

I used planetS in my question for a reason.  I'm not talking about 60 years from now when we have maybe 1 ship capable of getting to Mars.  I am talking about centuries from now when getting from Earth to Mars takes a few days, and there are many more colonized planets than that.  And before anyone says "that will never happen, it's impossible", well human flight was "impossible" for millennia, until the day it wasn't.  So I don't really buy the "it's never going to happen" line.

[Tallpine]

By withholding the vital supply shipments that are necessary for the survival of the colonists.

That's real humane 

Even if I were younger, I don't think I'd want to go without being self-sufficient from the start.  Congress (or whoever) might just cut off funding 


I'm not even sure anything like this will ever happen, because there is little or no benefit to the funders who are left behind on Terra.  Do you suppose people are willing to spend billions/trillions just to make sure the human race survives after this solar system is long dead and cold


If some billionaire happened to fund the whole thing "just for humanity", do you think the powers that be would even let it happen? 

[230RN]

If some billionaire happened to fund the whole thing "just for humanity", do you think the powers that be would even let it happen?

 

Would need a heck of a permit system.  Imagine the "Need" question some States have, as in "Why do you need a concealed carry permit?"



"Why do you need to become a Colonist?  __________________________________________________________"

Imagine the answers.   

[Regolith]

  "Why do you need to become a Colonist?  __________________________________________________________"

"Because of questions like this."

[AZRedhawk44]

If some billionaire happened to fund the whole thing "just for humanity", do you think the powers that be would even let it happen?  

Hard to stop it, short of shooting down the launch vehicle in its first 10-15 minutes of flight.

Rocket launch from US air space?  Well, the US could stop it I suppose.  But, if that command has to climb a command chain, the craft would already be 100 miles up before a "shoot" command came down.  It would be 150 miles up before a US Destroyer with Aegis or similar tech could lock on and launch a kinetic interceptor.

(Assuming that the Air Force's new "micro-shuttle" isn't a god-rod system that can intercept from above... and even if it were, it's on a 2 hour orbit pattern and unlikely to be in position for the 10-15 minutes it takes to achieve orbit.)

By the time a ground-based missile could intercept, the craft would be beyond high earth orbit and on its way.  The interceptor missile would run out of fuel in low earth orbit, relying on inertia and pre-plotted trajectory to impact the target.  A slight course deviation, and the missile is off target.

That's assuming that the US would shoot DOWN a projectile/rocket going up that shows no signs of being a danger to anyone on the ground.

I doubt the Russians or the Chinese could knock down such a craft, unless the Russians have already put weaponized satellites in space during the height of the Cold War.

If someone held a press conference 1 minute before launch, and 1000 miles away from the secret launch site (ideally a hollowed out volcano), declaring intent to launch and the purpose, I doubt the US Government would have the information assets to stop it before ignition, or chutzpah to forcibly shoot it down in light of the starry-eyed dreams of the billionaire philanthropist whom the public would love so much.

Look how much everyone loves Burt Rutan.

Multiply that by a million-fold if someone funded the next Columbus expedition to the Great Unknown.

You know that Columbus guy, right?  Suppose his name will ever die in history?

THAT is your billionaire motivation.

[MicroBalrog]

By withholding the vital supply shipments that are necessary for the survival of the colonists.

The thing is,  a "self-sustaining" colony isn't one that can make all of its own stuff, it's one that can make or trade for all of the necessary stuff.

[230RN]

Besides, think of all the technological innovations concomitant with the effort.

You know that Columbus guy, right?  Suppose his name will ever die in history?

THAT is your billionaire motivation.

What, to be named Queen Isabella?

[Jim147]

If someone held a press conference 1 minute before launch, and 1000 miles away from the secret launch site (ideally a hollowed out volcano), declaring intent to launch and the purpose, I doubt the US Government would have the information assets to stop it before ignition, or chutzpah to forcibly shoot it down in light of the starry-eyed dreams of the billionaire philanthropist whom the public would love so much.

I think the problem with that would be getting all the technology put together without someone along the way saying "Aren't you a little young to be a rocket scientist?" Multiply this by our post 911 keeping very close tabs on certain things.

Now if the billionaire built this on a deserted island and got all the parts from other country's,it might... well I think some guys in black might still come knocking.

jim

[Perd Hapley]

Look how much everyone loves Burt Rutan.

Who's Burt Rutan?

[Strings]

>ikea flat-box all-you-need-is-an-allen-wrench housing modules<

Which would result in the Mars Colony being without shelter, as it's a guarantee that everyone would forget said allen wrench...

And I'm not sure the government COULD stop it, if a private individual with enough resources (Bill Gates level of resources) decided to make it happen. "Resources" being funding and connections...

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The thing is,  a "self-sustaining" colony isn't one that can make all of its own stuff, it's one that can make or trade for all of the necessary stuff.

Know of any good intergalactic trading posts?   

[AJ Dual]

The thing is,  a "self-sustaining" colony isn't one that can make all of its own stuff, it's one that can make or trade for all of the necessary stuff.

The next fifty years that brings us either AI, or expert-systems that are good enough to be indistinguishable from AI, functional self-assembling nanotech, commoditized stereo-lithography for durable goods, and robust tailored biotech that's producible from a small self-contained lab will all be a force multiplier for labor and enable the colony to produce difficult things like drugs and complex machine parts.

Honestly, when you leverage these technologies here on Earth, there really isn't much that one needs in space, assuming Malthusian/population problems aren't in play. The only thing that space has for us of true value is other places to place humanity so our metaphorical eggs aren't all in one basket.

Because those same technologies that will be of immense use in making space colonies self-sustaining, may well also wipe us out.

[AZRedhawk44]

Who's Burt Rutan?

http://www.ted.com/talks/burt_rutan_sees_the_future_of_space.html

Scaled Composites.

Designer of WhiteKnight/Spaceship1 and WhiteKnight2/Spaceship2.

Partner with Sir Richard Branson for Virgin Galactic.

Branson is the $$$, Rutan is the idea behind the $$$.  The "Karl Rove" of the privatized space flight movement.

Looks a bit like Conway Twitty.   

[slugcatcher]

The government could very well stop it with the stroke of a pen. New federal regulation, buying off other governments with nice trade agreements, loans, etc. There will be no privately funded colonizations if the government doesn't want it to happen. I'm all for getting off our butts and into the great unknown. I'm just saying it would be easy for the government to stop. There would never be a need to shoot down anything as the program would never get that far if it was not allowed.

[roo_ster]

By withholding the vital supply shipments that are necessary for the survival of the colonists.

That's real humane 

But, very practical.  Power is amoral. 

OTOH, if the colonists are dependent on a gov't & associated  taxpayers form Earth, there is a moral argument to be made that they get a say in what their tax dollars pay for.  If they would prefer the Martian Colony to organize more along the lines of Green Acres than Hair, they ought to have the authority.  Don't like it? Get off their teat.

[AJ Dual]

The government could very well stop it with the stroke of a pen. New federal regulation, buying off other governments with nice trade agreements, loans, etc. There will be no privately funded colonizations if the government doesn't want it to happen. I'm all for getting off our butts and into the great unknown. I'm just saying it would be easy for the government to stop. There would never be a need to shoot down anything as the program would never get that far if it was not allowed.

In the "billionaire with a vision" scenario this is postulated under, the political leverage and money spent to grease the wheels would be almost trivially easy as compared to the actual engineering and technical challenges.

Hell, you wouldn't even need any direct money or bribery applied. Just the promised business dangled out before all your aerospace subs would get them pounding on their representatives and senators right quick for you without lifting a finger, save having your engineers write up some RFP's.

The only real problem I see is if environmental groups get on your case about the launches themselves, or any nuclear power assets you're also lifting. Hell, they protest the launch of every RTG that we send out into deep space. OTOH, they haven't gotten anywhere yet, and the captured public imagination of a colonization effort should make the PR battle pretty one-sided.

[MicroBalrog]

That's real humane 


But, very practical.  Power is amoral.

Not even slightly.

Two kinds of Mars colonies can exist.

Either a symbolic one with half a dozen scientists running experiments - like an ISS, but far away. Obviously such a thing seceding is ridiculous  - but such a thing is a waste of money anyway.

Or a real one, which would only be viable if the colonists supply trade goods of some kind back to Earth. In which case ending trade with them would be massively counteproductive.

[AJ Dual]

Not even slightly.

Two kinds of Mars colonies can exist.

Either a symbolic one with half a dozen scientists running experiments - like an ISS, but far away. Obviously such a thing seceding is ridiculous  - but such a thing is a waste of money anyway.

Or a real one, which would only be viable if the colonists supply trade goods of some kind back to Earth. In which case ending trade with them would be massively counteproductive.

Unlikely.

Unless there's truly unique compounds that exist on Mars that can't be synthesized on Earth without great difficulty, or perhaps a higher proportion of heavy metals and rare earths, there's nothing that can't be gotten cheaper from asteroids or other places that have smaller gravity wells, or simply be synthesized here at home.

I'm not saying there won't be pseudo-economic make-work that will provide a prima-facie justification for colonization, but there won't be anything as valuable as simply expanding the human footprint.

I can't completely rule out that such colonization won't invent, or discover completely new resources or products we've never even considered before, however, one can do simple math based on energy availability and the rough distribution of the periodic table of elements in any given solar system body, and unless you're engaging in mega-engineering where no one planet has sufficient resources anymore, it's almost always going to be cheaper to produce it at home, or collect the elements elsewhere.

[MicroBalrog]

Then it won't be done.