Over-penetration of .357 magnum rounds?

[MechAg94]

I agree with a post above that said a lot of stuff blamed on over penetration is missed shots.

What I have not seen and would like to see is Box'OTruth style tests for over penetration.  Get one or two water jugs with clothing on both sides as if it was a person and set up another set of clothing and jugs behind it.  I've never really seen that.  You would think it would be a good test. 

Just to clarify, I don't want a gun that is "just good enough" to only go through on assailant, but I am curious how much power a hollow point round would retain when or if it exits the target.  I'd be curious to see the same for various rifle rounds.

[AZRedhawk44]

I agree with a post above that said a lot of stuff blamed on over penetration is missed shots.

What I have not seen and would like to see is Box'OTruth style tests for over penetration.  Get one or two water jugs with clothing on both sides as if it was a person and set up another set of clothing and jugs behind it.  I've never really seen that.  You would think it would be a good test.  

Just to clarify, I don't want a gun that is "just good enough" to only go through on assailant, but I am curious how much power a hollow point round would retain when or if it exits the target.  I'd be curious to see the same for various rifle rounds.

http://azredhawk44.blogspot.com/2008/01/box-of-truth.html

I did something similar for a condor lead poisoning issue here in AZ, back in 2008.  I focused on bullets containing prolific amounts of lead, and not so much on defensive hollowpoints as on hunting cartridges.

.22lr
.357 mag 158gr LSWC
.44 mag 240gr LSWC
.30-30 170gr JSP
.308 Win 150gr JSP

You'd need a LOT more than 2 jugs to stop a .357.  Even a hollowpoint.  .22LR goes through 2 jugs, and CCI minimag .22lr will go through 3 jugs.  Fed bulk pack .22 will almost get into a 4th jug.  Water ain't flesh.

[gunsmith]

my last ccw class was my renew/requal, I knew more than the instructor.

As far as over-penetration, hogwash. (as long as you) Get good defense rounds.
As far as practice, I generally agree that you should practice with what you're gonna be using in self defense.

personally, in my last 357mag I had, a sp101 with a houge grip, I really enjoyed shooting the most ferocious loads I could find.

[Tallpine]

my last ccw class was my renew/requal, I knew more than the instructor.

As far as over-penetration, hogwash. (as long as you) Get good defense rounds.
As far as practice, I generally agree that you should practice with what you're gonna be using in self defense.

personally, in my last 357mag I had, a sp101 with a houge grip, I really enjoyed shooting the most ferocious loads I could find.

Cost rather than recoil is the issue for lots of folks.

[French G.]

Well, .30-06 with a good bullet will often stay in a 150 lb deer or be found on the ground nearby. Then again, get some .30-06 blacktip and you can probably shoot through a herd of deer if they cooperate and stand in line.  I've got some screaming 9mm with Hornady XTP that shot out of a Glock 17 penetrates less than JHP out of a .38 snub.

So, for .357 I say light, fast, BONDED CORE, bullet. No over penetration, great terminal. Carry a speedloader of heavy solids or something in case zombie bears are on your list of things to fear.

[Boomhauer]

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

My CCW class was so chock-full of gun-board arfcom n00b bullscat that it could have been done within 1 hour if it just had to cover the necessary legal material.  Instead I got to hear about 9 versus 45, and how the sound of a racking shotgun makes burglars fill their pants, and revolver versus semi-auto, and all about the UN and Hillary and the Small Arms Treaty, and how farmers in the UK go to jail for protecting themselves from burglars, and every other piece of gun-board pop trivia you could dredge up.

Rather than taking care of business and moving on.

Doesn't surprise me in the least that you got a ration of craptastic information regarding the .357.

A CCW class is a walking-talking-self-propagating gun board perpetual motion machine.

My CCW instructor spent a lot of time dwelling on how you didn't need a loaded gun at home.

EVERY gun at my house is loaded. EVERY ONE. I just want to be able to *expletive deleted* a home intruder up with whatever I lay hands on at the moment rather than trying to hunt down ammo for it.


He also told us we didn't need to use our sights, either.

[Tallpine]

.30-06 with a good bullet will often stay in a 150 lb deer

You must be shooting tougher deer than me then... 

[French G.]

You must be shooting tougher deer than me then... 

Found more than one Nosler Partition under the far side skin.

[Tallpine]

Found more than one Nosler Partition under the far side skin.

I always find a big hole on the back side.

[birdman]

What happened to CCW classes explaining, well, the legalities, methods, and concerns with, well, concealed carry?  I've heard all sorts of things (the anything that doesn't start with a 4 is worthless crap).  Problem is, then you have people who don't know any better ending up with a weapon they can barely hold, let alone put consistent shots on target.  Yes, I keep my usp45 under the bed, but I got my GF an xd9...why? It's fits her hands, she is dead nuts accurate with it, and with good ammo, her aimed shot with follow ups will be better than one "maybe" with a 40/45.  (I also keep the usp9 close at hand as well, why? I'm more accurate with it than with the 45...).  Being comfortable and well trained will top a larger bullet any day of the week.

Ironically, the best CCW/SD class I've been in was in MA!  It went through all the details of the important aspects of both, required both revolvers and semi auto pistols to be fired with accuracy requirements, and in my opinion, coached all the participants with proper firearm choice (which I could find no fault with)...weird, considering how strict the CCW requirements are there (including the need to have a CCW JUST to OWN a "large capacity handgun")

[Boomhauer]

What happened to CCW classes explaining, well, the legalities, methods, and concerns with, well, concealed carry?  I've heard all sorts of things (the anything that doesn't start with a 4 is worthless crap).  Problem is, then you have people who don't know any better ending up with a weapon they can barely hold, let alone put consistent shots on target.  Yes, I keep my usp45 under the bed, but I got my GF an xd9...why? It's fits her hands, she is dead nuts accurate with it, and with good ammo, her aimed shot with follow ups will be better than one "maybe" with a 40/45.  (I also keep the usp9 close at hand as well, why? I'm more accurate with it than with the 45...).  Being comfortable and well trained will top a larger bullet any day of the week.

Ironically, the best CCW/SD class I've been in was in MA!  It went through all the details of the important aspects of both, required both revolvers and semi auto pistols to be fired with accuracy requirements, and in my opinion, coached all the participants with proper firearm choice (which I could find no fault with)...weird, considering how strict the CCW requirements are there (including the need to have a CCW JUST to OWN a "large capacity handgun")

Butbutbut sticking with the basics is so whitebread!. Much more fun to talk about gun myths as if they were true and BS around.

Now, keep in mind I don't believe CCW classes should be necessary or anything like that...


But in my area, anybody who can jump through a few hoops can be a CCW instructor. You've got some good ones around here, but a good portion of them are members of the whackjobs that gathers at the gunstore counter to discuss and expound upon thier (questionable at best) wisdom.

[seeker_two]

I would like to see a CHL class exclusively for Taurus Judge owners......paging Jamis..... 

[Perd Hapley]

What happened to CCW classes explaining, well, the legalities, methods, and concerns with, well, concealed carry? 

The point was, don't carry a .357Mag, cause it will overpenetrate when you use it to lawfully defend yourself. That's definitely a moral and legal concern - if it is a concern at all.

[gunsmith]

Cost rather than recoil is the issue for lots of folks.

quite true for me right now, quite true.
I'm real low on .40 - only got around a 1/2case of gold dot for both practice/carry.
My next cash is already spent on vehicle repair so I can get to any job I might get.

I took my last requal class with two oldsters getting a ccw for the first time, they were using a .380 keltec and couldn't rack the slide most of the time, couldn't handle the recoil/snap and missed at 7ft & they regurgitated the most idiotic rumors and half truths.   Saving grace was they seemed terrified of confrontation and I doubt they are ever really gonna get into a situation that they need to use it. Which is good because they're toast if they do.

[Boomhauer]

I would like to see a CHL class exclusively for Taurus Judge owners......paging Jamis..... 

"Load your first chamber with rubber buckshot so you won't kill your attacker!", "Birdshot works great for SD!", "It's a shotgun, so you won't even have to aim!" "Here's a great Uncle Mike's holster for it!" "Because the NRA said it was great!" Winning!

[GigaBuist]

I always find a big hole on the back side.

Uh... that's where the poop comes out.
 
 

[Tallpine]

Uh... that's where the poop comes out.
 
 

Only if you shoot them too far back