Author Topic: Martian soil appears able to support life!  (Read 10312 times)

Nick1911

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2008, 08:52:22 AM »
Soil's fine, atmo's fine for plants, what about the temperature?

Low.  Real low.  IIRC it swings from -90C to -5C.  Very Antarctica like.

Marnoot

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2008, 09:04:10 AM »
Soil's fine, atmo's fine for plants, what about the temperature?

Low.  Real low.  IIRC it swings from -90C to -5C.  Very Antarctica like.

Don't sound none too plant-friendly...  laugh

El Tejon

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2008, 09:06:37 AM »
February Northern Indiana=surface of Mars. 

Wrong colours though.  Need more browns and grays.
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Nick1911

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2008, 09:15:40 AM »
February Northern Indiana=surface of Mars. 

Wrong colours though.  Need more browns and grays.

Mid-winter in northern Indiana is flat-out depressing.  Bare trees silhouetted against gray skies for months on end.  undecided

El Tejon

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2008, 09:18:02 AM »
Months on end?

WTF?  No, it could be 70 and sunny one day, 50 and raining, or -10 and snowing.  Nothing like diversity. grin 
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stevelyn

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2008, 02:21:30 PM »
It's too bad we can't bring any of the soil back and conduct experiments to see if it would actually support growing plants. A flower pot full and a pack of tomato seeds would tell us all we needed to know.
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Tallpine

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2008, 06:23:18 PM »
Rhubarb - I bet rhubarb would grow on Mars  laugh

And zuchini of course...
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mfree

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2008, 08:00:55 PM »
Seems all they need is an inflatable greenhouse with a UV filter, a bank of powerful fans or pumps powered by solar panels, and a handful of seeds.

The atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide... laying out the greenhouse and pumping it up to earth-level pressures or a wee bit lower takes care of the first part, the sun raises the temperature at least to habitable levels, hopefully above freezing... and if so, then the seeds and ergo growing plants take care of oxygenating the greenhouse. It may not be habitable until it equalizes, but frankly it almost seems too easy.

seeker_two

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2008, 05:11:50 AM »
Rhubarb - I bet rhubarb would grow on Mars  laugh

And zuchini of course...

Who'd want to go to Mars if all you could eat was rhubarb and zuchini?....
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Manedwolf

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2008, 07:50:28 AM »
Rhubarb - I bet rhubarb would grow on Mars  laugh

And zuchini of course...

They would need to ship the restroom facilities before the rest of the habitat.

macadore

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2008, 11:52:20 AM »
Soil's fine, atmo's fine for plants, what about the temperature?

Quote
The daytime SURFACE temperature is about 80 F during rare summer days, to -200 F at the poles in winter. The AIR temperature, however, rarely gets much above 32 F.

The temperatures on the two Viking landers, measured at 1.5 meters above the surface, range from + 1° F, ( -17.2° C) to -178° F (-107° C). However, the temperature of the surface at the winter polar caps drop to -225° F, (-143° C) while the warmest soil occasionally reaches +81° F (27° C) as estimated from Viking Orbiter Infrared Thermal Mapper.

In 2004, the Spirit rover recorded the warmest temperature around +5 C and the coldest is -15 Celsius in the Guisev Crater.

http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q2681.html

Tallpine

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2008, 03:21:35 PM »
It's clear to me that Mars is in desperate need of some global warming. Wink
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drewtam

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2008, 04:40:51 PM »
I want to see equipment puttering around there with the logos on the side for NASA, Martin, Lockheed...and John Deere. smiley

I'd hope New Holland gets the contract, but that's just local pride. 

You'd need to re-engineer the tractors.  Mars has significantly lower gravity than earth, and the atmo is lower in oxygen.  But yep.  Need to do a lot of digging, you'd likely need some sort of space tractor.

Cat's already ahead of that game...
http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=8703&x=7&f=177263#/nasa/

In this movie they're talking about the moon, not Mars, but Mars should be easier.
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DustinD

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2008, 07:26:02 PM »
Keep in mind that with Mars low atmospheric pressure, buildings and people (in space suits) do not lose as much heat as it would seem. All of the studies that I have seen for Mars habitats have required more cooling capabilities than heating. A green house for example that is a hybrid of natural and artificial light would need pretty decent cooling capabilities unless you used some of the most efficient (and expensive) led lights that are beginning to appear. By new and expensive I mean several dollars per emitter and not generally or yet available, but the price will come down as yields improve.

Also any serious Mars base plan involves some form of nuclear power source even if it is not a full blown reactor. These can provide all of the high or low grade heat you could ever want.

www.marshome.org is working on Mars colony concepts as is www.newmars.com

http://www.marssociety.org/portal and www.marsdrive.com are also good places for information on this topic. All four places have forums and or mailing lists.

Shooting rifles on Mars would we way too much fun. 38% gravity and 1% air resistance would give you tons of range and almost no wind drift.
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S. Williamson

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2008, 11:55:05 PM »
I say we employ Mormons (Martian Mormons?).  smiley

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seeker_two

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2008, 03:46:53 AM »
Cool.....Porter Rockwell vs. the Martians....  cool

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_Rockwell
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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2008, 06:43:50 AM »
Ok.
Mars is pretty big, somewhat flat in some locations, no foliage at least, and lower gravity.

I can't wait for the rifle ranges.
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Dntsycnt

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2008, 07:03:36 AM »
Hmm...I wonder if Mars's assassination friendly atmosphere would lend to a better political climate? shocked

Manedwolf

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2008, 07:04:38 AM »
Ok.
Mars is pretty big, somewhat flat in some locations, no foliage at least, and lower gravity.

I can't wait for the rifle ranges.

Clay shooting would be downright unfair.

Firethorn

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2008, 10:46:49 AM »
Keep in mind that with Mars low atmospheric pressure, buildings and people (in space suits) do not lose as much heat as it would seem. All of the studies that I have seen for Mars habitats have required more cooling capabilities than heating. A green house for example that is a hybrid of natural and artificial light would need pretty decent cooling capabilities unless you used some of the most efficient (and expensive) led lights that are beginning to appear. By new and expensive I mean several dollars per emitter and not generally or yet available, but the price will come down as yields improve.

Indeed.  One of the things I learned in biology is that plants DO use O2 at night.  Not as much of it as animals, of course.  Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if roots often depend on atmospheric O2.  So if you're starting up a greenhouse you're either going to need to spike it with some O2 or provide 24-7 light to your seedlings so they're continously producing the O2 they need.  Even then you're likely to need a dedicated sprouting section that provides an O2 source until the seedlings develop enough chlorophyll for photosynthesis.

As for the lights, I wouldn't picture anything else being used - unless you're talking about some light source being produced on mars in favor of shipping it from earth.  The cost of launching anything into orbit, then putting it on a course for mars makes the cost of the lights insignificant, so why not use the best?

Quote
Also any serious Mars base plan involves some form of nuclear power source even if it is not a full blown reactor. These can provide all of the high or low grade heat you could ever want.

Pretty much.  As long as you're putting in a nuclear reactor on mars, might as well go whole hog and make it a combined plant.  Higher efficiency for win!

I don't think that it'd be a bad idea to send over an automated greenhouse first.  Get the O2 levels up to 'breathable', then use mechanical/chemical systems to seperate out the O2, either into a chemical dump or pressurized tanks.  Keep balancing out the atmosphere to maintain proper pressure and CO2 levels by sucking in more outside atmosphere.  Possibly using regenerable CO2 scrubbers to pull only CO2 in from outside(keeping nitrogen or whatever else is out there from eventually choking up the system).

The harvesting systems would likely be interesting.  Then again, deprived of O2, you're not going to get much in the way of decomposition, so you'd just sequester whatever plant matter you don't want.  No oxygen in freezing temperatures(IE outside) wouldn't lead to decomposition anytime soon in human terms.

Don't send humans until you have enough O2/plant matter to act as a food supply for a year or five.  And yes, initially for a colony project I'd make most of the trips one way.


Tallpine

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2008, 10:52:07 AM »
If the atmosphere of Mars is 95% carbon dioxide, then how come it isn't warmer there Huh?

 laugh
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Scout26

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2008, 11:21:52 AM »
If the atmosphere of Mars is 95% carbon dioxide, then how come it isn't warmer there Huh?

 laugh

Tallpine, stop confusing AlGore with facts.

All we need to do is find the big mountain and go push the three finger button to get all the oxygen we need.
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macadore

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life!
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2008, 01:23:21 PM »
Since the cloud cover is much less dense than Earth, why wouldnt solar power work well there? If were just talking about raising plants, it seems an inflatable green house, an air compressor, and a heat exchanger would be all one would need. That would not require much power. Of course, this assumes there will be enough water to sustain life. Cactus and succulents might grow better than asparagus.