Author Topic: Rudely Displaying a Firearm  (Read 20113 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2013, 06:12:50 PM »

And you know what, you can thank MADD for it.  It was DUI stuff that really started the erosion of 4A and 5A--both in search and in compelling evidence against yourself. 

only if you look at a very small slice of history
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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birdman

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2013, 07:10:56 PM »
only if you look at a very small slice of history

Well, yeah, I was merely citing one example, and one that continues to have impact, ad is relatively recent, and more broadly applied than many others....it wasn't meant to be an inclusive list.

T.O.M.

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2013, 08:27:01 PM »
One of the biggest areas of debate in the legal community is in the area of constitutional rights versus technology.  Take for example the 4th Amendment and your home.  No doubt that officers cannot just come in and look around, absent consent.  But they can stand in the street and look at your house, without any 4A issues.  What about the thermal viewers that allow officers to see through the walls essentially to look for excessive heat associated with illicit drug manufacture?  The devices only allow the officers to see that which is already being "shown" to those on the street, just taking the invisible and making it visible.  And the new laser microphones that allow a user to bounce a beam off of plate glass and convert the vibrations in the glass to audible sound, letting the user hear a conversation inside from outside?  As bad as MADD may have been, the war on drugs has done more than MADD, by making it profitable for police to pursue drug dealers, which gives them the money to buy things like thermal imagers and laser microphones.  This in turn drives the industry to develop other toys, like button camers, micro-GPS trackers, air sniffers (which can check the air around a home for traces of drug manufacture or use.)  The same comes into play in our fight, as people say the framers never pictured EBR's when they wrote in the 2A.  And they never imagined television and the internet when they wrote in 1A.  These are all great issues to debate over beer, until you walk into a courtroom and have real lives at issue instead of philosophical debate.  I guess that's why the only book that it always on my bench is a copy of the U S Constitution.  No joke.  The statute and rule books change.  USCon is always there.

As to the OP, I don't know Texas law, but it sounds like a potential bad choice by the man (I don't know Texas laws), turned into a clusterfu** by the cops.
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birdman

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2013, 08:41:37 PM »
One of the biggest areas of debate in the legal community is in the area of constitutional rights versus technology.  Take for example the 4th Amendment and your home.  No doubt that officers cannot just come in and look around, absent consent.  But they can stand in the street and look at your house, without any 4A issues.  What about the thermal viewers that allow officers to see through the walls essentially to look for excessive heat associated with illicit drug manufacture?  The devices only allow the officers to see that which is already being "shown" to those on the street, just taking the invisible and making it visible.  And the new laser microphones that allow a user to bounce a beam off of plate glass and convert the vibrations in the glass to audible sound, letting the user hear a conversation inside from outside?  As bad as MADD may have been, the war on drugs has done more than MADD, by making it profitable for police to pursue drug dealers, which gives them the money to buy things like thermal imagers and laser microphones.  This in turn drives the industry to develop other toys, like button camers, micro-GPS trackers, air sniffers (which can check the air around a home for traces of drug manufacture or use.)  The same comes into play in our fight, as people say the framers never pictured EBR's when they wrote in the 2A.  And they never imagined television and the internet when they wrote in 1A.  These are all great issues to debate over beer, until you walk into a courtroom and have real lives at issue instead of philosophical debate.  I guess that's why the only book that it always on my bench is a copy of the U S Constitution.  No joke.  The statute and rule books change.  USCon is always there.

As to the OP, I don't know Texas law, but it sounds like a potential bad choice by the man (I don't know Texas laws), turned into a clusterfu** by the cops.

Both the bolded examples are unconstitutional, the first demonstrated recently, the latter, well, since forever.

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2013, 08:47:42 PM »
Is Sarge active duty?  (I think so)  So wouldn't the Army provide his legal defense?

How far does Ft Hood's jurisdiction extend?  A couple of miles out from their border?  Would love to see MP's arresting Temple cops that venture too close to the base and seizing their vehicles and duty weapons -- kind of a tit for tat thing.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2013, 09:15:12 PM »
Both the bolded examples are unconstitutional, the first demonstrated recently, the latter, well, since forever.


one oft overlooked point.  folks might not be able to get some stuff admitted in court.  that doesn't mean they don't still use it .  they then reverse engineer their story 
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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zahc

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2013, 09:38:54 PM »
IR scopes were ruled an illegal search because it was technology "not in common use". Well, technology marches on; what happens when I can buy an IR scope from Dealextreme for $10?

Or, ahem:

http://www.google.com/glass/start/what-it-does/

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2013, 09:56:05 AM »
It was brought up earlier, but it is legal to carry a long gun in Texas.  However, I think local govts are allowed to regulate that to an extent.  Some years back (90's I think), Quannel X (local black activist) and a bunch of his guys did protest in downtown Houston where they were all carrying SKS rifles and other long guns.  I think at the time they couldn't be loaded and they couldn't threaten anyone with them.  I was always told that Yeah, you can walk around with a gun, but you can bet the cops will be watching you and asking you questions. 

This was talked about on a local AM station a few minutes ago and a lawyer was calling in.  He indicated there is some court precedent saying an officer can take possession of the weapon for the purpose of doing a Terry stop or something like that.  Hard to say if that applies well here though.  I haven't yet seen the video so I need watch it before I comment too much.
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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2013, 10:14:58 AM »
It was brought up earlier, but it is legal to carry a long gun in Texas.  However, I think local govts are allowed to regulate that to an extent.  Some years back (90's I think), Quannel X (local black activist) and a bunch of his guys did protest in downtown Houston where they were all carrying SKS rifles and other long guns.  I think at the time they couldn't be loaded and they couldn't threaten anyone with them.  I was always told that Yeah, you can walk around with a gun, but you can bet the cops will be watching you and asking you questions. 

This was talked about on a local AM station a few minutes ago and a lawyer was calling in.  He indicated there is some court precedent saying an officer can take possession of the weapon for the purpose of doing a Terry stop or something like that.  Hard to say if that applies well here though.  I haven't yet seen the video so I need watch it before I comment too much.

For that to be applicable, there has to be some indication of threat/violence on the partof the searched, no?  The mere presence of a firearm is not a threat.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2013, 10:38:57 AM »
would the sgt's proximity to the airport rise to the degree needed for a terry stop?  and his being disarmed for the duration of that?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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T.O.M.

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2013, 10:45:30 AM »
For that to be applicable, there has to be some indication of threat/violence on the partof the searched, no?  The mere presence of a firearm is not a threat.

I think the presence of a firearm being a threat or not depends on the perception of the person sitting on the bench.  I know of one judge who would say that the mere presence of a firearm (not in the cop's hands) is a threat sufficient to warrant LEO action.  On the other hand, I've seen a different judge chew out a game warden for telling a man on his own property to lay down his antique rifle in the mud and dirt, because that warden saw the rifle in hand as a threat.  judge saw it as a valuable firearm that shouldn't be laid in the mud.

You know, what I find terribly interesting in these situations is that the more liberal the judge in terms of protecting the citizen against LEO encroachment, the more likely that same judge will see the mere presence of a firearm as a threatening thing.  The more conservative judge, who uses terms like "officer safety" and such when ruling in favor of LEO's is much more likely to not equate the presence of a firearm with the presence of a threat.

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zahc

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2013, 10:48:39 AM »
Does anyone else remember when the black panthers took AR-15s to the capital after finding out that open-carry of long guns was actually legal (at the time)? That always impressed me, simply because I like to see people exercising their rights.
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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2013, 11:10:32 AM »
FWIW, the "right to disarm" is written into Texas CHL law, and I'd assume this is what the cop was using to justify disarming the subject in this.
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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2013, 11:29:13 AM »
Does anyone else remember when the black panthers took AR-15s to the capital after finding out that open-carry of long guns was actually legal (at the time)? That always impressed me, simply because I like to see people exercising their rights.

It wasn't AR-15's.











cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2013, 01:23:43 PM »
FWIW, the "right to disarm" is written into Texas CHL law, and I'd assume this is what the cop was using to justify disarming the subject in this.

oh  you gonna get all factual and spoil it
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2013, 02:14:55 PM »
FWIW, the "right to disarm" is written into Texas CHL law, and I'd assume this is what the cop was using to justify disarming the subject in this.

So I guess the million dollar question is, does open carry of a long gun fall under the Texas CHL law?  

A little google-fu seems to indicate it does not....   Apparently the open carrying of a long gun falls under section 42.01, disturbing the peace.

Relevant section:  
Quote
displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

Texas CHL law does state that the officer may "disarm" a license holder....   But in the very next sentence says that the officer must return the "handgun".  Any of our TX contingent familiar with 42.01 case law as to the definition of "manner calculated to alarm"?

Quote
Sec. 411.207.  AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.  (a)  A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.  The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.

I have a feeling this one is gonna get interesting....
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Tallpine

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2013, 03:18:52 PM »
Does Texas Instruments make an alarm calculator  ???
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2013, 04:30:45 PM »
Grisham had a handgun and holds a permit iirc. That is gonna bite him in the butt.

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2013, 04:51:10 PM »
Grisham had a handgun and holds a permit iirc. That is gonna bite him in the butt.

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I'm trying to figure out what the handgun/permit has to do with legally carrying a rifle  ???
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2013, 05:01:27 PM »
Grisham had a handgun and holds a permit iirc. That is gonna bite him in the butt.

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Only if he was open carrying a handgun.  There is nothing written in CHL statutes prohibiting him from carrying a rifle openly.  It's legal.
JD

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2013, 05:10:10 PM »
Only if he was open carrying a handgun.  There is nothing written in CHL statutes prohibiting him from carrying a rifle openly.  It's legal.

By his own published admission he was carrying a 45.

Also would love to see his route and how close he was to airport while hiking and when he was stopped.

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2013, 05:10:39 PM »
By his own published admission he was carrying a 45.

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He admitted to OPEN carrying a 45?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2013, 05:15:44 PM »
He admitted to OPEN carrying a 45?

Doesn't specify in print open or concealed. Can't see vid on my phone

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Perd Hapley

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Re: Re: Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2013, 05:17:38 PM »
Doesn't specify in print open or concealed. Can't see vid on my phone

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Then why did you say it would bite him in the butt?   :rofl:
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Rudely Displaying a Firearm
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2013, 05:17:45 PM »
By his own published admission he was carrying a 45.

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Open carrying?  That would be a seperate charge.

PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating

He could be charged with carrying concealed while commiting a crime as well.

Doesn't specify in print open or concealed. Can't see vid on my phone

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Oh well then.  Why did  you bring it up then?  Unless they convict him of a crime, he won't be chargeable under the above statute if the handgun was concealed.
JD

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