Rubio just shot himself in the foot

[Hawkmoon]

I hope.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/marco-rubio-immigrants-217895

Not that I would ever have voted for him, but he has now acknowledged that he's not in favor of enforcing the laws when the laws mostly affect his ethnic brethren.

“If you’re a criminal alien, no, you can’t stay. If you’re someone that hasn’t been here for a very long time, you can’t stay,” he said. “I don’t think you’re gonna round up and deport 12 million people.”
...
“If circumstances change or you learn something along the way, it’s reasonable to say, ‘Maybe a different approach will work better,’” Rubio said. “So, for example, on immigration it is clear no comprehensive solution to immigration is going to pass.”

No comprehensive solution is going to pass, so what better reason to suspend the law and allow 12 MILLION illegals to stay here, sucking the lifeblood out of our infrastructure and our economy?

This is why the Founders wrote the Constitution the way they did -- they didn't want people with foreign sensibilities running the country. Unfortunately, they couldn't foresee a day when people come here and become nominal citizens but in their hearts remain loyal to their (or their parnets' or grandparents') country of origin.

[Scout26]

I've never cared for Rubio all that much.  He seems to go whichever way the political winds blow, but without the skill of Bill Clinton.   When he was part of the Gang of 8 (or however many) that tried to come up with "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", he lost me.

And I think he's the establishment's back-up candidate for when Jeb! tanks.

Plus he looks like he's twelve, so Putin would pants him and then give him a swirly at their first summit.

[TommyGunn]

“I don’t think you’re gonna round up and deport 12 million people.”

Do YOU think we're going to actually round up and deport 12 million?   EACH person we round up gets a court hearing.  That's 12 million court hearings.  That will last from now until Admiral Kirk finally whacks Khan.
We used to be able to do these deportations but the courts have intervened and ruled they must be given hearings.
So, basically, we're f****D.   

[AJ Dual]

Do YOU think we're going to actually round up and deport 12 million?   EACH person we round up gets a court hearing.  That's 12 million court hearings.  That will last from now until Admiral Kirk finally whacks Khan.
We used to be able to do these deportations but the courts have intervened and ruled they must be given hearings.
So, basically, we're f****D.   

Meh... between the crap economy,  and even just "enforcing as hard as we can", and some serious border security, preventing additional friends or family from joining them,  many would self-deport. And of course,  even if I'm wrong, that's no reason to sit there and let the problem get worse.

Don't need courts for employer enforcement either.

As a Libertarian I accept the larger arguments about open borders, but I fully recognize that there's a intentional purpose behind the current immigration that has anything but a libertarian outcome behind it.

It should be the last piece of libertarian policy enacted,  not the first.

[TommyGunn]

Meh... between the crap economy,  and even just "enforcing as hard as we can", and some serious border security, preventing additional friends or family from joining them,  many would self-deport. And of course,  even if I'm wrong, that's no reason to sit there and let the problem get worse.

Don't need courts for employer enforcement either.

As a Libertarian I accept the larger arguments about open borders, but I fully recognize that there's a intentional purpose behind the current immigration that has anything but a libertarian outcome behind it.

It should be the last piece of libertarian policy enacted,  not the first.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do  that stuff.  I am just.... ''irritated" at people who think we can just go around and pick up illegals and trebuchet them back across the border.  Hey, I like the image too ... but life doesn't work that way.
And we definantly need to do employer enforcement!

So far as the economy is concerned if it gets really bad (again) I may self deport myself to Tahiti.  Heck, if Hillary is elected prez I'll self deport to Pago Pago.   And I'm not even an illegal alien.

[roo_ster]

Do YOU think we're going to actually round up and deport 12 million?   EACH person we round up gets a court hearing.  That's 12 million court hearings.  That will last from now until Admiral Kirk finally whacks Khan.
We used to be able to do these deportations but the courts have intervened and ruled they must be given hearings.
So, basically, we're f****D.   

Plenty of space to hold them out west along the border until they get their turn.  Sure is cheaper than providing medicaid, food stamps, educating their anchor babies, etc.  Give them a choice: return now, of your own free will; or wait it out in Tent City with the roadrunners and rattlesnakes behind the wire, like any other lawbreaker.  No teevee, no HVAC, diet taken from Michelle Obama's guidelines.  Shower once a week.  The harder they work on the border fence, the sooner higher the priority their case gets and they can go home.

And that is worst-case, "Takes forever to process them" assumptions.  Fire (or re-located to rubber rooms) and re-staff with folks willing to do the job and it move more quickly.  Start hauling off those who employ illegals to prison and demand for illegals will dry up quite a bit.  Use every contact with gov't (LEO, school, indigent hospital care, etc.) to nab them.  Truly make those who want to stay go "into the shadows" and stay there.

This is the least-bloody option.

It should be the last piece of libertarian policy enacted,  not the first.

Open borders is the clearest evidence that libertarianism is a utopian faith.  The moment it achieves its objectives, it is undone by the results of the achievement.  "We have an-cap nirvana.  Let us now open the borders to roughly 6 billion folks who do not share our political creed.  What could possibly go wrong?"

[Scout26]

Meh... between the crap economy,  and even just "enforcing as hard as we can", and some serious border security, preventing additional friends or family from joining them,  many would self-deport. And of course,  even if I'm wrong, that's no reason to sit there and let the problem get worse.

Don't need courts for employer enforcement either.

As a Libertarian I accept the larger arguments about open borders, but I fully recognize that there's a intentional purpose behind the current immigration that has anything but a libertarian outcome behind it.

It should be the last piece of libertarian policy enacted,  not the first.

And denying them welfare and other benefits.  No work, no money, no aqui.

[Hawkmoon]

Terminating all forms of federal assistance to so-called "sanctuary" cities would be a good starting point, too. And states that issue drivers licenses to illegals.

[Northwoods]

Illegal immigration is just a result of one side demanding the labor, and the other side supplying it.  Deal with the demand side of the equation and the supply side will take care of itself.

[MechAg94]

I am sure something could be done about the processing and court procedures.  I bet a lot of that is deliberately complicated to make it harder to deport illegals. 

Might also need to come up with a system for businesses to check on if applicants are illegal or not.  Take away the "I didn't know" excuse. 

[roo_ster]

I am sure something could be done about the processing and court procedures.  I bet a lot of that is deliberately complicated to make it harder to deport illegals. 

Might also need to come up with a system for businesses to check on if applicants are illegal or not.  Take away the "I didn't know" excuse. 

http://www.uscis.gov/e-verify

E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.

Of course, the Usual Suspects are not fond of it or any expansion of it.

[Scout26]

I am sure something could be done about the processing and court procedures.  I bet a lot of that is deliberately complicated to make it harder to deport illegals. 

Might also need to come up with a system for businesses to check on if applicants are illegal or not.  Take away the "I didn't know" excuse. 

There already is "E-verify".

And yes, have 24 hour courts.  Not fleeing from a repressive (as defined by the State Dept, and those 'tards are reluctant to name any country as "repressive", especially a friendly ally like Mexico.) country, trebucheted back across the border.  

[makattak]

There already is "E-verify".

And yes, have 24 hour courts.  Not fleeing from a repressive (as defined by the State Dept, and those 'tards are reluctant to name any country as "repressive", especially a friendly ally like Mexico.) country, trebucheted back across the border. 

BUT, we need to allow employers to check that BEFORE hiring an individual. If I recall correctly, current law forbids checking that until you have already employed someone.

[Scout26]

BUT, we need to allow employers to check that BEFORE hiring an individual. If I recall correctly, current law forbids checking that until you have already employed someone.

Not the last time I checked.  Individuals still have to complete the I-9 form as part of the hiring process.  Should they fail the E-verify, then they don't get hired.

[mtnbkr]

Not the last time I checked.  Individuals still have to complete the I-9 form as part of the hiring process.  Should they fail the E-verify, then they don't get hired.

I've hired five people in the last two years.  The employee must complete the I-9 as part of the process and the hiring manager (me) must visually inspect the documents used to satisfy the I-9 requirements.  Then the I-9 gets sent off to HR where I presume they use E-Verify (or maybe they do so as part of the background check process, dunno for sure.

Chris

[Jamisjockey]

And denying them welfare and other benefits.  No work, no money, no aqui.

This right here is half the solution.  The other half is passing a law or constitutional amendment clarifying the 14th amendment.  Anchor babies get welfare so the parents get it by default.  The only self correcting immigration solution is to eliminate anchor babies and eliminate all benefits for anyone who's not a legal US citizen/resident.
Done. No need for a fence.  No new BP hiring.  That right there will fix most of the immigration problem.

[makattak]

Not the last time I checked.  Individuals still have to complete the I-9 form as part of the hiring process.  Should they fail the E-verify, then they don't get hired.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/nativedocuments/e-ver-employee-rights.pdf

First page:

Your employer may only check E-Verify after you have been
offered and have accepted a job, and you have completed the
Form I-9. Your employer may not use E-Verify on applicants
(i.e., pre-screening you through E-Verify before hiring you), and
your employer may not use E-Verify selectively to verify some
employees and not others.

[makattak]

Also:

http://www.uscis.gov/e-verify/faq/when-may-employer-initiate-query-under-e-verify

The earliest the employer may initiate a query is after an individual accepts an offer of employment and after the employee and employer complete the Form I-9. The employer must initiate the query no later than the end of three business days after the new hire’s actual start date.

Although an employer may initiate the query before a new hire’s actual start date, it may not pre-screen applicants and may not delay training or an actual start date based upon a tentative non-confirmation or a delay in the receipt of a confirmation of employment authorization. In short, an employee should not face any adverse employment consequences based upon an employer’s use of E-Verify unless a query results in a final nonconfirmation.

For this reason, if the query returns an employment authorization response, an employer cannot speed up the employee’s agreed upon start-date, as that would be disparate treatment based upon E-Verify results of this employee compared to another who may have received a tentative non-confirmation. For example, Company X always assigns a start-date to new employees that are two weeks after the employee has submitted an approved drug test. After the employee has accepted a job with Company X, and after the employee and Company X complete the Form I-9, the company can initiate the E-Verify query. However, the company cannot speed up or delay the employee’s start-date based upon the results of the query (unless the program issues a final non-confirmation, in which case the employee should not be further employed).

Employers must verify employees in a non-discriminatory manner, and may not schedule the timing of queries based upon the new hire’s national origin, citizenship status, race, or other prohibited characteristic.

[makattak]

So, employers can only use e-verify AFTER offering the job AND cannot wait for e-verify to come back before allowing the employee to start/get training...

[grampster]

Build one trebuchet and pack in 12 million illegals.  Should be interesting to watch.  Sell tickets.  Pay off the national debt.

Seriously, anchor baby should go away.  In addition, I think I'd say that anyone here as an illegal should step forward if they have a job, health insurance or Obamacare, no criminal record and are not collecting any goobermint benefit.  Give 'em a get-out-of-illegal-alien-status card, must swear allegiance to America and stay out of any criminal activity, continue to be employed for a period of time...say 3-5 years, learn English during that period and then be sworn in as a citizen.  That should happen AFTER the borders and ports are secured.  Everyone else that can't qualify gets deported when nabbed.

[Scout26]

Build one trebuchet and pack in 12 million illegals.  Should be interesting to watch.  Sell tickets.  Pay off the national debt.

Seriously, anchor baby should go away.  In addition, I think I'd say that anyone here as an illegal should step forward if they have a job, health insurance or Obamacare, no criminal record and are not collecting any goobermint benefit.  Give 'em a get-out-of-illegal-alien-status card, must swear allegiance to America and stay out of any criminal activity, continue to be employed for a period of time...say 3-5 years, learn English during that period and then be sworn in as a citizen.  That should happen AFTER the borders and ports are secured.  Everyone else that can't qualify gets deported when nabbed.

We already did that once, back in the 1980's...

[KD5NRH]

So, employers can only use e-verify AFTER offering the job AND cannot wait for e-verify to come back before allowing the employee to start/get training...

When I've worked jobs that had any real potential to hire illegals, (un/low skilled labor) they usually found some way to make the first few days of training dead simple stuff with no access to proprietary information, etc...or they'd just put you to cleaning up something that had desperately needed it since they last had a new guy to dump it on.  Of course, that's likely more because those are the kind of jobs people will often disappear from in the first week (or the day after the first payday) anyway, but it would have the side benefit of giving time for eVerify, background check, etc. to come back.

[Scout26]

Hmmm, a couple of places I worked at, we had the "new hire" fill out the I-9 the first day, while they were filling out other paperwork, we would call in the number we used for E-verify.  I was kind of like an NICS check.  Read the info from the form, and get a Yes/No  right then.   I only recall once when they called back like 2 weeks later and told to get rid of person X.

[seeker_two]

Do YOU think we're going to actually round up and deport 12 million?   EACH person we round up gets a court hearing. 

Why? If they want a hearing, they can appear for one at the US Embassy in their home nation.....

Rubio was the establishment candidate all along. Bush & the others were to make it seem like an olive branch to the Trump/Cruz/Carson voters...