The problem with big box..architecture, not business.

[BReilley]

If we don't have sufficient stock of empty big-boxes, and blight, where on earth will the Zaibatsu's and the mercenaries hired by the front company for a rouge AI of our dystopian near-future hold their gun battles, secret labs, or the quasi-feral techno sub-cultures find tribal space?

Okay... I read too much William Gibson for my own good.  

*pictures the duel from Johnny Mnemonic occurring under the suspended ceiling in the old Costco*

Seriously though, one of the Costcos here in the Phoenix east valley just "moved".  They built a facility about half again as big, with:
- Worse freeway access.  If you approach from the east, you must either exit 1mi before the road Costco is on, or 1mi after.
- Worse parking situation.  Two ways into the lot, fewer shopping-cart corrals, parking slots arranged without particular pattern.
- And much, much more.  Well, not really, but two bullet points doesn't look right on its own.

Meanwhile, the old, perfectly functional building - with good parking, freeway access and location(2.5mi nearer to the city from the new one) - sits unused and will for a LONG time.  There just aren't many businesses that can make use of a warehouse-type building that large.  Maybe a hub for a tire retailer or some such, but most of them are in Phoenix proper, not way out in the east valley.

Anyway.  Some things just aren't meant to be understood.

[AJ Dual]

*pictures the duel from Johnny Mnemonic occurring under the suspended ceiling in the old Costco*

Yes, the Lo-Teks fashioning their duel armor from the plastic of abandoned 5 gallon "family size" Vlasic pickle vats and, remnants of economy-size packaging of Stella-Doro biscoti.  It is rumored some of the tribal elders are the original employees of the store, when it closed, they could find no other place in society, so in the empty retail shell they remained...

[Strings]

AJ, ole son, you need a life...

[AJ Dual]

AJ, ole son, you need a life...

You know I have these four, right?



And Mrs. Dual works nights and weekends...

So, by definition, I have no life.

[Strings]

ok, it's not a life you need... it's duct tape...

[ilbob]

Yeah, that's another nasty tactic of the big box merchants. Never mind the problems an empty box creates, they'll pay good money to keep it empty. Wal-Mart did that for several years when a K-Mart near one of their stores here closed. Wal-Mart picked up the lease and refused to allow anything remotely in competition take over the space. They ultimately allowed Lowe's to raze the entire center and build a new Lowe's super home center -- which was much needed as a counterbalance to the wild proliferation of Home Depot stores around here.

I guess I don't see that as especially evil. No different than any other property owner refusing to sell his/her property for their own reasons.

I can't imagine what bad things an empty stor like that can bring. They are still paying property taxes, but consuming no services.

[Hawkmoon]

I guess I don't see that as especially evil. No different than any other property owner refusing to sell his/her property for their own reasons.

I can't imagine what bad things an empty stor like that can bring. They are still paying property taxes, but consuming no services.

If it's just one store, off by itself, all it does is attract vagrants and vandals. The problem is much exacerbated when the box is (was) the anchor store in a small or medium strip center, because the smaller stores rely on the traffic generated by the big box for their customers. When Wal-Mart keeps the anchor store empty, the rest of the center slowly withers on the vine. (Or ... maybe not so slowly.)

[mfree]

*ponder*

Wonder if any companies allow the short-term cheap rental of these abandoned facilities to people who need space for whatever reason for a few months, like storage while renovating or even something like garage space...

[Perd Hapley]

If it's just one store, off by itself, all it does is attract vagrants and vandals. The problem is much exacerbated when the box is (was) the anchor store in a small or medium strip center, because the smaller stores rely on the traffic generated by the big box for their customers. When Wal-Mart keeps the anchor store empty, the rest of the center slowly withers on the vine. (Or ... maybe not so slowly.)

And those problems don't happen with large warehouses or other large buildings that go vacant?  Like that Grim Hotel that Savalas linked to earlier? 

[AJ Dual]

And those problems don't happen with large warehouses or other large buildings that go vacant?  Like that Grim Hotel that Savalas linked to earlier? 

It depends.

Warehouses etc. are usually in a warehouse/manufacturing district. That only relies on the services, infrastructure, taxes/regulatory climate, quality of the workforce, and the rent/lease or mortgage value if it's worth it to surrounding properties. The "health" of the area does not rely on the perceptions of the public at large. It's also harder (for awhile at least) for the public to notice if a warehouse or factory is defunct.

Conditions generally need to be pretty bad for a business that does not deal with the public directly to pull up stakes and leave. They can do things like fence in the workers parking lot, add security etc. They have latitude to employ coping mechanisms, things that would make retail space look even worse.

As far as the Grim Hotel in Texarkana, was it the start of blight, or was it a victim of it?

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Can't quite say. I think it came into being around the start of the Great Depression, which probably had an impact. Think it shut down the hotel part in the 50s, and was just a gift shop for the next few years.

[Perd Hapley]

AJ,

warehouses or other large buildings

Such as those already mentioned.  The hotel, Wal-Marts abandoned after a Supercenter has moved in, malls that are mostly empty, etc.  I recall seeing some vacant buildings smack in the middle of Saint Louis, not out in the warehouse/industrial districts. 

[Manedwolf]

*ponder*

Wonder if any companies allow the short-term cheap rental of these abandoned facilities to people who need space for whatever reason for a few months, like storage while renovating or even something like garage space...

Security, liability, slip and fall, drug dealing operations. Probably not.

[French G.]

By the next recession I hope to have enough cash to stick an indoor go-kart track, gym, and anything else I can find and fit into a dead big box.

[Hawkmoon]

And those problems don't happen with large warehouses or other large buildings that go vacant?  Like that Grim Hotel that Savalas linked to earlier? 

Of course it happens. Which is why it's NOT a good thing for buildings to be kept vacant. The issue raised here is that Wal-Mart locks up the lease so that prospective tenants, who would make the building NOT vacant, can't rent the space because Wally World has it under contract ... thus maintaining the undesireable vacant condition that's good for nobody other than Wal-Mart.

Yes, short term rents of such buildings do happen (unless Wal-Mart has it locked in). I have even seen a vacant former K-Mart rented out for one weekend, for a computer fair. To the owner/developer (or bank), and income is better than no income.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

thus maintaining the undesireable vacant condition that's good for nobody other than Wal-Mart.

The condition is also good for the landlord, not just Wally Mart or whoever is tying the place up.  The landlord gets regular lease payments without having to go through the hassle of re-leasing his property, and he has very low expenses because the property isn't actually being used.

[Perd Hapley]

The issue raised here is that Wal-Mart locks up the lease

Actually, neither Wal-Mart nor "locking up the lease" were the subject of the original post.