Author Topic: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other  (Read 3611 times)

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,768
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 09:24:28 AM »
^^^If I am ever in an accident, I hope I am conscious enough to refuse helicopter transport when it is not needed to save my life.  In perhaps the majority of cases, ground transport is adequate, there is quite the loss ratio of air medical transports leading to everyone being killed, and most insurance companies will not pay for the helicopter, leaving the patient with tens of thousands of transport bills. In our area, Airlift Northwest is the main operator of air-borne medical transport, and they are very much a profit-making organization.  They have a reputation for not compromising on the bill, and they will send you to collection and drive you into bankruptcy without a second thought.  They lost a helicopter and all souls aboard a few years back when the copter went down in Puget Sound while transporting a pregnant woman in non-emergent labor.  Airlift Northwest stationed a helicopter and a fixed-wing transport at the airport near me a few years ago.
Some 20 years ago, a guy broke his leg in a plant I worked at near La Porte East of Houston.  It was a twisting break the local hospital didn't want to handle so they needed to take him to downtown Houston.  Apparently, it was policy that they didn't allow ground transport from the outskirts of Houston into the city.  They had to land a chopper at the site to pick him up.  That plant had a chopper landing pad in the middle of the truck loading are, but it was not well painted so they landed on the road out front.  I guess it was lucky for him it was work related and he wasn't stuck with the bill.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 09:28:32 AM »
^^^If I am ever in an accident, I hope I am conscious enough to refuse helicopter transport when it is not needed to save my life.  In perhaps the majority of cases, ground transport is adequate, there is quite the loss ratio of air medical transports leading to everyone being killed, and most insurance companies will not pay for the helicopter, leaving the patient with tens of thousands of transport bills. In our area, Airlift Northwest is the main operator of air-borne medical transport, and they are very much a profit-making organization.  They have a reputation for not compromising on the bill, and they will send you to collection and drive you into bankruptcy without a second thought.  They lost a helicopter and all souls aboard a few years back when the copter went down in Puget Sound while transporting a pregnant woman in non-emergent labor.  Airlift Northwest stationed a helicopter and a fixed-wing transport at the airport near me a few years ago.

As part of my duty with the State Guard, we had a tutorial with a local life flight crew. They flew up to see us, about 50 miles from the hospital, and we set up a landing zone for them on a ball field. It seemed like very interesting work, but also supremely dangerous. There was a crash local to us a few years ago (different hospital, same helicopter company), and as a result they installed a hands-free auto-pilot on all their machines, even the small ones. Basically if the pilot lets go of the stick, the machine rights itself immediately. They also have a very sexy combination terrain map with GPS that shows the grade in front of them and how high they need to be to clear it. We have perpetual fog sometimes along with quite a few mountains so I'm sure it helps.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 09:31:36 AM »
I was wondering my my fruit of the loom stock ticked up a few points...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 03:27:19 PM »
^^^If I am ever in an accident, I hope I am conscious enough to refuse helicopter transport when it is not needed to save my life.  In perhaps the majority of cases, ground transport is adequate,

Right.  Out of that one, IMO, Teddy Bear was the only one that really needed a helicopter.  Everyone else would have done better with prep at the local hospital to the point they could go out en masse on fixed wing aircraft.  It's not even ten minutes from the ER to the runway, the jets are faster, (and more importantly, longer range, so a lot more facilities become available in one hop, though with all of the greater DFW area in helicopter range I'm not sure there's anything they could be better served by out of the area) and IIRC, at least three of the five adult patients were going to the same hospital.  Plus while we might not have quite the overall resources of Presbyterian, JPS or Harris FW, the local ER isn't exactly a tent in a pasture staffed by faith healers; they can handle quite a bit on their own, and can certainly stabilize someone for lower-priority transport in most cases.

Cook Children's, OTOH, is so much more prepared to deal with pediatric emergencies than anything else in the state that I can definitely see why the local docs wanted them to handle all prep and transport.

griz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,048
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2018, 03:44:21 PM »
The incident occurred on November 17, 2012. We'll have to blame Obama for this one.

Trump has been working with Russian operatives on time travel, so he's still responsible. 
Sent from a stone age computer via an ordinary keyboard.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,898
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2018, 03:54:45 PM »
^^^If I am ever in an accident, I hope I am conscious enough to refuse helicopter transport when it is not needed to save my life.  In perhaps the majority of cases, ground transport is adequate, there is quite the loss ratio of air medical transports leading to everyone being killed, and most insurance companies will not pay for the helicopter, leaving the patient with tens of thousands of transport bills. In our area, Airlift Northwest is the main operator of air-borne medical transport, and they are very much a profit-making organization.  They have a reputation for not compromising on the bill, and they will send you to collection and drive you into bankruptcy without a second thought.

That's the kind of policy that might cause some extreme responses.

If I'm not conscious and didn't consent, and my insurance (whom I pay quite a bit to cover things like this) says it wasn't medically necessary to use a helicopter for transport then the company is on their own.  They probably fraudulently picked me up and need to be sued for that.

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,003
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2018, 07:45:44 PM »
If I'm not conscious and didn't consent, and my insurance (whom I pay quite a bit to cover things like this) says it wasn't medically necessary to use a helicopter for transport then the company is on their own.  They probably fraudulently picked me up and need to be sued for that.

The risk manager sez: most states have an implied emergency consent to treatment.  If you are injured and unconscious or otherwise do not have capacity to consent or refuse treatment, than consent to treat is implied on the basis of emergency.  Attempts to get out of paying medical bills for needed emergent medical treatment on the basis that the patient did not explicitly consent to treatment, are generally unsuccessful.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2018, 11:52:20 PM »
The risk manager sez: most states have an implied emergency consent to treatment.  If you are injured and unconscious or otherwise do not have capacity to consent or refuse treatment, than consent to treat is implied on the basis of emergency.  Attempts to get out of paying medical bills for needed emergent medical treatment on the basis that the patient did not explicitly consent to treatment, are generally unsuccessful.

And that's the key; when multiple medical professionals say the helicopter ride was no more necessary than the field circumcision they're also billing for, they need to get smacked down.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,898
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 04:40:10 AM »
The risk manager sez: most states have an implied emergency consent to treatment.  If you are injured and unconscious or otherwise do not have capacity to consent or refuse treatment, than consent to treat is implied on the basis of emergency.  Attempts to get out of paying medical bills for needed emergent medical treatment on the basis that the patient did not explicitly consent to treatment, are generally unsuccessful.

I know. But like KD5NRH  said, if the transport was needed emergent medical treatment, than my insurance is on the hook for it. If it wasn't needed then there's no implied consent, so the helicopter transport company should eat it.

I suspect this is one of those situations where their lawyers are better funded than the patients, so they can drag out a "win" regardless of right.

Viking

  • ❤︎ Fuck around & find out ❤︎
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,207
  • Carnist Bloodmouth
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2018, 05:01:13 AM »
Trump has been working with Russian operatives on time travel, so he's still responsible. 
Lies! Trump's time machine was designed by Nicolai Tesla, and built by Trump's uncle, John Trump.
“The modern world will not be punished. It is the punishment.” — Nicolás Gómez Dávila

freakazoid

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,243
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2018, 05:46:45 AM »
Lies! Trump's time machine was designed by Nicolai Tesla, and built by Trump's uncle, John Trump.

Oh yeah... I think I remember back during the election learning that his grandpa or someone was somehow involved with him, and so it became a thing for people to say he's actually a time traveler who knew how to do things to get elected or something along those lines. Or I could actually be thinking of someone else.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

AmbulanceDriver

  • Junior Rocketeer
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,932
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2018, 08:50:48 PM »
^^^If I am ever in an accident, I hope I am conscious enough to refuse helicopter transport when it is not needed to save my life.  In perhaps the majority of cases, ground transport is adequate, there is quite the loss ratio of air medical transports leading to everyone being killed, and most insurance companies will not pay for the helicopter, leaving the patient with tens of thousands of transport bills. In our area, Airlift Northwest is the main operator of air-borne medical transport, and they are very much a profit-making organization.  They have a reputation for not compromising on the bill, and they will send you to collection and drive you into bankruptcy without a second thought.  They lost a helicopter and all souls aboard a few years back when the copter went down in Puget Sound while transporting a pregnant woman in non-emergent labor.  Airlift Northwest stationed a helicopter and a fixed-wing transport at the airport near me a few years ago.

Oh man, do I have a story on this one.   Years ago while I was still an EMT in the field, we got tapped for a call out in rural Clackamas County.  Little bit of background on how our system works in that county, the first unit/responders on scene are Person In Charge.  They run the scene.  Other counties, if fire gets there first, they run the scene only until my company arrives on scene, then the transporting unit becomes PIC (since we're going to be in charge in the ambulance anyways).  The call is at a horse barn, group of kids from one of the schools for kids with behavioral issues was out there doing a field day as part of their therapy.  Girl "falls" off a horse, claims she lost consciousness.  This is in an indoor arena, and I kid you not, there must have been a foot of loosely packed sawdust on the ground.  No way in hell she lost consciousness.  She also is claiming that she can't see (bullcrap - she's tracking us with her eyes as we're walking around her) but whatever.  She's being a drama queen, attention seeking, we'll take her to the hospital because, well, the school is pretty much demanding that she get cleared medically before she's allowed to return to the school.  CYA, whatever.  Volunteer fire company is first on scene, and these vollies... Well....  Some volunteers are great.  They have a metric ton of experience, good clinical skills, etc.   I swear, the officer on this volunteer company was greener than the grass we were standing on....  And the rest of the engine company hadn't even sprouted yet.   They had activated LifeFlight (not just standby, but get the bird in the air) as we arrived on scene.  My lead on the ambulance was a paramedic since pretty much the invention of the term....   We get on scene, look inside at the arena floor, look at the girl (not even a scratch or bump on her) pretty much as the EMT's on the engine are getting ready to get her on the backboard, and the officer is activating the rotorheads...  At this point, she's realizing that she's bitten off more than she can chew, and magically can see, etc.  Still claiming she lost consciousness though.  Girl was committed to this path and didn't know how to get off it.

I know she's lying.  My lead knows she's lying.  The staff know she's lying.   The officer on the engine declares "SHE'S A TRAUMA SYSTEM ENTRY!"

*crap* :facepalm:

My lead tries taking the officer to the side to have a "chat".  Nope, not happening.   It's his patient, his call, she's a trauma entry, and per protocol (we were more than 30 minutes away from a trauma center by ground) he's flying her.

*crapcrapcrap*

So, girl gets packaged up to fly.   Backboard, c-collar (those were done by the fire EMT'S), bilateral IV's, wired up to the cardiac monitor, the whole shooting match.  Now, in our system, once the helo gets in radio range of the crew (usually about 3-5 minutes from the scene) we give two reports.  The first is to the pilot, giving the landing zone info, and the second is to the flight nurse, giving the patient info.   So this officer is all sorts of self important as he gives a pretty dang good LZ report to the pilot, and then starts to give the patient report to the RN.  He kinda flubs that one a little, being he was so green he needed watering.  So the nurse asks for the patients GCS (Glascow Coma Scale, a pretty handy tool for quickly determining just how sick a patient is - a corpse has a GCS of 3, someone walking talking and totally normal has a GCS of 15).  He replies, shockingly confident to the rest of us with a clue, that the patient has a GCS of 15.  "FIFTEEN!?!?!?" comes the suddenly aggravated sounding nurse back over the radio.  "LifeFlight out.  We'll see you on the ground in 3 minutes."   Officer finally starts to get a clue that he may have possibly missed something.  

Whirlybird lands, nurse comes storming out of the helo and starts looking for whoever is in charge.  She zeros in on my lead, who raises his hands and points at the officer from the engine...  Now, I'm not entirely sure what was said, because the helo was still running while the flight paramedic came over to check on the patient.  But there was shouting.  There was gesticulating.  There was finger pointing.  Pretty sure I heard something that sounded like "trucking midget".......  But like I said, it may have been something else, because that helicopter is kinda loud.

Lil' miss drama queen gets loaded on the bird (they burned all that Jet A getting over here, they're not going back empty).  And little miss drama queen's family got a $15,000 helicopter bill because she wanted attention.  Well, she got it, in spades.

Personally, I think the officer on that engine company should have had to pay at least half of it.  But that's just my opinion.  

Are you a cook, or a RIFLEMAN?  Find out at Appleseed!

http://www.appleseedinfo.org

"For some many people, attempting to process a logical line of thought brings up the blue screen of death." -Blakenzy

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,003
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2018, 10:20:44 PM »
My time as a paramedic was before civilian medical helicopter transport.  Back then, if you needed air evac, you called for a MAST (Military Assistance to Safety and Traffic) helicopter from Ft. Lewis.  It had better be a very critical case, and in my service area, it took the chopper anywhere from 30-45 minutes to get there.  Ground transport to Harborview was almost always faster.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2018, 02:17:15 AM »
DUSTOFF Europe 30.80 New Squelch ON.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,280
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2018, 09:05:26 AM »
My time as a paramedic was before civilian medical helicopter transport.  Back then, if you needed air evac, you called for a MAST (Military Assistance to Safety and Traffic) helicopter from Ft. Lewis.  It had better be a very critical case, and in my service area, it took the chopper anywhere from 30-45 minutes to get there.  Ground transport to Harborview was almost always faster.

Even with the advent of medical helicopters zipping through the sky it doesn't mean a rapid transport. When I worked the Blackfeet Nation we had two choices of helicopters, Great Falls or Kalispell, and either of those took nearly an hour to get to us from the time we called them. And yes, we had people die waiting on transport or during the transport. That's one of the consequences of living so far out in the sticks.  =|


bob

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Note to helicopter pilots: keep those spinny bits away from each other
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2018, 11:46:35 AM »
It had better be a very critical case, and in my service area, it took the chopper anywhere from 30-45 minutes to get there.  Ground transport to Harborview was almost always faster.

Yeah; assuming they can get to the hospital, closest helicopter is ~30 miles out, and JPS and Harris FW are 60-70.  Figuring in prep time, ground is going to be faster, since there aren't really any chokepoints that would slow an ambulance other than one train crossing.  Dallas, on the other hand, I've seen both 20 and 30 clogged with near-standstill traffic to the point police were patrolling on bicycles because the shoulders were blocked by overheated cars that had slowly made their way there to shut down.  Literally guardrail-to-guardrail blockage moving under 5mph.

Then there's weather; last time I remember a heavy air-evac day, it was because we had near-calm, clear weather, but patchy ice on the roads.  After a few scene-to-local-ER transports, CareFlight decided to just assign a helicopter, plane and a relief crew for the heli to the local airport until the next morning when enough ice was gone to speed things back up on the ground; made more sense than flying back to Grand Prairie empty each time, then having ~80 extra miles to cover on the next response.