There is off the grid, then there is OFF THE GRID!

[Grandpa Shooter]

My Lady works for the local hospice agency and I volunteer there 2=3 times a month.  While doing some filing I saw a name I thought I recognized.  Same name as a friend from the Valley.  Intrigued, I asked about the person.  Found out they live out near where we bought some land and that they need some firewood cut.  When I volunteered to go do it, the volunteer coordinator was stunned.  "Do you know about that area?"  Yup we bought out there.  "You are serious?"  (I really get frustrated with people who question my sincerity)  Yes, I know about that area.  "You would really go out there?"  Yes.  "They have a bunch of big dogs!"  Yes, that is their security system.  "You aren't scared of big dogs?  By now I am getting a little irritated.  I explained as patiently as possible that it is people I have problems with, not animals.

Went out there Monday.  They are waaaaaay off the grid and live on top of the mesa with a view for 50-60 miles to the north and west.  Had to use 4 wheel low 1st gear to get through the washes and up the "road" to the top.  Good thing my YJ has a 258 carbureted with high voltage coil.  I sure needed it.

Good folks.  They use rudimentary solar, wood and propane.  Harvest all their water, compost all their waste and grow as much as they can in above ground refrigerator gardens.  They live on a caprock shelf overlooking their 80 acres.  Got invited back to visit as often as I can get through the wash, or stay if the SHTF before I can get set up on our land.  He is a brother in arms so we hit it off well.  His Lady calls it as she sees it, so we hit it off quickly.  Now I have to get my Lady out there for some lessons in living with the land.  Got a ton of questions for them both when I see them again.

Salt of the earth!

[AZRedhawk44]

I've gotta ask...

If they are so off-the-grid, why is it that they need someone to come out and chop firewood for them???

Were they the same people as you thought they were when you recognized the name?

Good on you for going out and helping them out though.

What did the hospice lady mean by "Do you know about that area?"  Deliverance music ringing through the hills?  Werewolves stalking in the night?  Mel Gibson drives through there in a mustang fighting off marauding street gangs?

(I hope they aren't the ones dropping garbage on your land.  )

[Perd Hapley]

I don't remember what Max drove, but I don't think it was a Mustang.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

That's wonderful.  Always nice to meet like-minded individuals. 

[Gewehr98]

No need to send up yellow alert flags. They may just be in a manpower pinch for a short time - it happens.

In my time, I've helped others cut, split, and stack firewood.

They reciprocate.

We've also done barn raisings, and mended fence strands for each other when needed.

Hell, we've even cut each other's lawns.

My wife really appreciated the assistance from the good folks next door after my cancer surgery this last July.  She got all sorts of help from the neighbors on either side of our property, and as I get more strength and stamina, I help them with computer stuff and other things that don't wipe me out. 

I think they call that being "Right Neighborly". 

[MillCreek]

I don't remember what Max drove, but I don't think it was a Mustang.

Finally.  A question that I know about.  The car driven by Mel Gibson in the first Mad Max movies was a modified 1973 XB GT Ford Falcon Coupe, a model unique to Australia.  http://www.madmaxmovies.com/cars/interceptor/history1.html

[Grandpa Shooter]

The "off the grid" area of East Central Arizona is populated by a lot of people who for one reason or another don't particularly like living within municipal boundaries.  Quite a few of them are my age, same military background, with some of the same issues.  They are selective about who they let on their land, and who they accept favors from.  Hospice didn't think anyone would go out there voluntarily to help any of the "Easties" as they are called. This particular person, while not my friend from the Valley, is a man I will gladly help when I can.

I speak the same language (I am not talking about English vs Spanish here) and so get along fine with most of them.  There are some who are "over the top" even for me.  I almost went "off the grid" back in 1994, but felt my work in society was not done.  I have begun to feel again lately like it is time to move out.  That is why we bought the land we did.  The kicker is that it is a "fringe" property, being just barely off the grid.  We can live closer with the land, but not be so totally OFF THE GRID.

Some of you Vietnam vets can probably relate to what I am saying here, and there is no way to expain it to the rest.  If anyone wants to PM me, feel free to do so.

[Matthew Carberry]

No need to send up yellow alert flags. They may just be in a manpower pinch for a short time - it happens.

In my time, I've helped others cut, split, and stack firewood.

They reciprocate.

We've also done barn raisings, and mended fence strands for each other when needed.

Hell, we've even cut each other's lawns.

My wife really appreciated the assistance from the good folks next door after my cancer surgery this last July.  She got all sorts of help from the neighbors on either side of our property, and as I get more strength and stamina, I help them with computer stuff and other things that don't wipe me out. 

I think they call that being "Right Neighborly". 

Sounds awful commie to me. 

[mfree]

Neighbourly is helping someone out of the good of your heart.

Communism is helping someone out of the goodness of the gun barrel at the back of your head.

[Waitone]

Some of you Vietnam vets can probably relate to what I am saying here, and there is no way to explain it to the rest.

Vietnam vets aren't the only ones who have the attitude. 

[Stand_watie]

.....
Some of you Vietnam vets can probably relate to what I am saying here, and there is no way to expain it to the rest.  If anyone wants to PM me, feel free to do so.

Grandpa Shooter, I think the vast, vast, majority of the people on this board are completely comfortable with you and whoever else wants to, having your way of thinking, and life, even if we are not "off the grid".

My only concern regarding your new friends needing help, is that I'd like to see them "connected" to a more personal network of friends than a posting to a local hospice. Even if it's a carrier pigeon delivered message posted to a Vietnam Vets newsletter, I'd like to know that a person doesn't have to depend on the "kindness of strangers".

BTW; it sounds like you're a classy guy. Keep it up

[Matthew Carberry]

Neighbourly is helping someone out of the good of your heart.

Communism is helping someone out of the goodness of the gun barrel at the back of your head.

9 out of 10 cardiologists agree, not getting shot in the back of the head is good for your heart. 

[Grandpa Shooter]

My only concern regarding your new friends needing help, is that I'd like to see them "connected" to a more personal network of friends than a posting to a local hospice. Even if it's a carrier pigeon delivered message posted to a Vietnam Vets newsletter, I'd like to know that a person doesn't have to depend on the "kindness of strangers".

Thanks for your concern about networking among Vets.  I don't know how many others handle things, but I personally know how hard it is to ask for help.  Some of us, particularly the young ones who served at 18, 19, 20 came back with a mess of problems.  Some of us were able to jump into society and flourish.  Some were marginal, like me, somewhat successful, but unable to form lasting friendships, or stay married.  Some came back so damaged that they have never fit anywhere and finally gave up trying and found the best thing for them was to escape to the back country and live out their lives as quietly as they can.  They key word for us is "survivors."

We get by, survive, adapt, manage, cope, you find a word that works for you, and it most likely fits.  The brothers in arms who know about the others out there, do not generally associate freely.  They are "on guard", walk their perimeters nightly, sleep with a firearm nearby, if not in their hand.  They have 3 or more large dogs who roam the land on duty so the owner doesn't have to go without sleep every night.  Some of us sit sleeping in a recliner which is placed carefully in a corner, others can't sleep with our back to a door or window.

We manage, and some of us die early horrible deaths due to the conditions of our service, or the excesses we turn to, to attempt to dull the pain.  I have been one of the lucky ones.  I have stayed within the shadows at the edge of society and have been moderately successful.  I have struggled hard since 9-1-1 to stayed connected.  Some days I feel like I am losing the fight.  I am honored to be able to help people like the ones I have met in the process of doing my "chores" because they make me feel more "at home" then I ever do anywhere else.

Most of the Veterans Orgs seem to only want to deal with the "normal" Vets and turn their noses up at the "damaged" ones.  I guess that's where I fit in the puzzle.

[ArfinGreebly]

Gramps,

Glad to see you're still feisty and getting on with things.  I recall your earlier medical concerns.

I'm a Vietnam era vet.  I narrowly missed going to Asia, and spent my years in UK and EU.

I have a couple of friends who made the Asia trip and came back.  And a couple who didn't.

I won't pretend that I know what it was like there, but I've sat with some of the guys and lived their stories with them.

Grim stuff.  And some outrageous stuff.  And, now and then, some downright funny stuff.

I came within a couple of flight numbers of going over there.  My flight and our sister flight got plucked out of the middle of several dozen that were headed for various parts of Asia, and they sent us the other way.

I am reminded from time to time of Shakespeare's King Henry V speech.  The final four lines.

And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

Luck of the draw, I wasn't there.

But I will always have time for the men who were.

[Stand_watie]

My only concern regarding your new friends needing help, is that I'd like to see them "connected" to a more personal network of friends than a posting to a local hospice. Even if it's a carrier pigeon delivered message posted to a Vietnam Vets newsletter, I'd like to know that a person doesn't have to depend on the "kindness of strangers".

Thanks for your concern about networking among Vets.  I don't know how many others handle things, but I personally know how hard it is to ask for help.  Some of us, particularly the young ones who served at 18, 19, 20 came back with a mess of problems.  Some of us were able to jump into society and flourish.  Some were marginal, like me, somewhat successful, but unable to form lasting friendships, or stay married.  Some came back so damaged that they have never fit anywhere and finally gave up trying and found the best thing for them was to escape to the back country and live out their lives as quietly as they can.  They key word for us is "survivors."

We get by, survive, adapt, manage, cope, you find a word that works for you, and it most likely fits.  The brothers in arms who know about the others out there, do not generally associate freely.  They are "on guard", walk their perimeters nightly, sleep with a firearm nearby, if not in their hand.  They have 3 or more large dogs who roam the land on duty so the owner doesn't have to go without sleep every night.  Some of us sit sleeping in a recliner which is placed carefully in a corner, others can't sleep with our back to a door or window...

     I'm a veteran of the peacetime reserves. Which means I don't have any realistic conception of your pain. My father has a recollection of his uncle who fought in ww2. He had terrible, terrible experiences in the "black forest". He sat on the front porch in a rocking chair, and didn't talk to anybody. His advantage was he had a support network...his family and extended family took care of him. 

[Grandpa Shooter]

My only concern regarding your new friends needing help, is that I'd like to see them "connected" to a more personal network of friends than a posting to a local hospice. Even if it's a carrier pigeon delivered message posted to a Vietnam Vets newsletter, I'd like to know that a person doesn't have to depend on the "kindness of strangers".

Thanks for your concern about networking among Vets.  I don't know how many others handle things, but I personally know how hard it is to ask for help.  Some of us, particularly the young ones who served at 18, 19, 20 came back with a mess of problems.  Some of us were able to jump into society and flourish.  Some were marginal, like me, somewhat successful, but unable to form lasting friendships, or stay married.  Some came back so damaged that they have never fit anywhere and finally gave up trying and found the best thing for them was to escape to the back country and live out their lives as quietly as they can.  They key word for us is "survivors."

We get by, survive, adapt, manage, cope, you find a word that works for you, and it most likely fits.  The brothers in arms who know about the others out there, do not generally associate freely.  They are "on guard", walk their perimeters nightly, sleep with a firearm nearby, if not in their hand.  They have 3 or more large dogs who roam the land on duty so the owner doesn't have to go without sleep every night.  Some of us sit sleeping in a recliner which is placed carefully in a corner, others can't sleep with our back to a door or window...

     I'm a veteran of the peacetime reserves. Which means I don't have any realistic conception of your pain. My father has a recollection of his uncle who fought in ww2. He had terrible, terrible experiences in the "black forest". He sat on the front porch in a rocking chair, and didn't talk to anybody. His advantage was he had a support network...his family and extended family took care of him. 

In a grim way, we are family for each other.  We do what we can when we can.  Sometimes the only thing anyone can do for us is to leave us alone to work it out yet one more time.  We work alone for the most part, in jobs we find satisfying.  We often deliberately start and don't finish a project before starting another, so that there IS something for us to do.  I find splitting wood to be good therapy.  It works the knots out of my body and soul.  Swinging that maul or axe is soothing.

Today we are going out to the land we bought and likely will spend part of the day working on the common road we share with our Neighbors whom we have never met, and may never meet.  Out there you don't just drive up somebody's driveway, unless you have a major death wish.  Good neighbors mind their own business.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Gramps,

Glad to see you're still feisty and getting on with things.  I recall your earlier medical concerns.

I'm a Vietnam era vet.  I narrowly missed going to Asia, and spent my years in UK and EU.

I have a couple of friends who made the Asia trip and came back.  And a couple who didn't.

I won't pretend that I know what it was like there, but I've sat with some of the guys and lived their stories with them.

Grim stuff.  And some outrageous stuff.  And, now and then, some downright funny stuff.

Yeah, we are tough old birds of war.  I still have some of the issues going on, but what can you do but keep on keeping on?

You make an interesting distinction I have always made and been called names for. There are clear differences among us.  Some good, some not so good.

Vietnam ERA vets
Vietnam IN COUNTRY vets
Vietnam COMBAT vets
DISABLED Vietnam combat vets

The numbers get way smaller as you go down the list.  There aren't many of us disabled Vietnam combat vets left, since so many of us died between 50 and 55 years of age.  The guy I am helping is on his last watch at 61.  Sad and frustrating to only be able to cut and split firewood for the guy, but hey, at least I can do something.