Geno's Owner Defends 'Speak English' Sign

[atomd]

News story: http://cbs3.com/topstories/Genos.Steaks.Sign.2.610918.html

Remember this one? In the news again....

PHILADELPHIA (CBS3/AP) ― The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations held a public hearing Friday to address a controversial sign at the popular Geno's Steaks that has garnered worldwide attention.

The hearing was scheduled after allegations were made accusing Geno's Steaks of discrimination for posting a sign that reads: "This Is America. When Ordering Speak English."

Geno's owner Joey Vento said it is "free speech" and defended his policy during Friday's hearing.

"This country is a melting pot, but what makes it work is the English language," Vento told the commission during a hearing that lasted more than six hours. "I'm not stupid. I would never put a sign out to hurt my business."

Vento placed the sign outside of his business in October 2005.

"Since we have a little problem in the country with the language, it is also telling people at Geno's Steaks, all we speak is English," Vento said.

Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations (PCHR) does not see it that way and alleges Geno's is in violation of the Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance - Chapter 9 Section 9-1105 (A) (1) (b) of The Philadelphia Code.

After extensive publicity over the sign in June 2006, the commission began investigating whether Vento was violating the city's Fair Practices Ordinance. That law prohibits discrimination in employment, public accommodation and housing on the basis of race, ethnicity or sexual orientation.

The commission believes the sign discourages patronage by non-English speaking customers.

"Individuals who operate in a place of public accommodation cannot post signage or express messages that might have the resulting affect of making any group, any ethnicity, and any national origin person feel unwelcome," said Nick Taliaferro, Human Relations Commission.

Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations has their heads up their you know what. If he's forced to take his sign down I hope he puts one up that says "Nick Taliaferro and idiots like him are not allowed". Boo Hoo..someone felt unwelcome. They should feel unwelcome to begin with for being a burden on our society.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so in your version of reallity folks who can't/don't speak english are a burden on society?  how wonderfully "american"  of you.
theres a famous book about you
 by authors William Lederer and Eugene Burdick.

[atomd]

How many tax dollars go to print materials in Spanish? Explain how that is not a financial burden. How many hours of training do we need to spend learning different languages so that we can communicate with US CITIZENS who refuse to learn English. Explain how someone isn't a burden if they are in a country where they can't even communicate on a basic level. How could they explain critical details to responders in an emergency situation? I'm not saying that speaking a different language is wrong, I'm saying refusing to learn English while being a citizen or permanently living in the US is wrong. If you think that has anything to do books about US foreign policy, I think you're not looking at it from the same perspective. Are you comparing an immigrant from Mexico to a US official not learning a language and custom to communicate on some diplomatic mission somewhere? It's a completely different concept altogether. I don't get it. I guess I just must be Un-American......

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so in this version of the world folks refuse to learn english while becoming citizens?really?  thats kinda hard to even imagine  much less do isn't it?

i don't know if you as much un american  (unless you are one of those folks that buy into the nonesense on the ugly green statue in new york harbor) as much as you might be un  informed.

[nico]

I'll gladly be having my first real Philly cheesesteak at Geno's this Friday. . . can't wait!

[grampster]

Ehh, I don't know why that sign would offend anybody that can't speak English.

If one can't speak the language, it's a fair bet they can't read it so how could they know that discrimination is occurring?

One of the things that made our nation great was the fact that brave people had the courage to leave their homes and plunge into the unknown because they knew they had a chance to better themselves.  That moxie built a nation.  But at the same time, they had to assimilate and do what was needed to do in order to succeed.  Many did.  Many did not.  Learning the language was forced on them.  They did not whine about it, they just did it.  They had to learn the language in order to succeed.  That did not mean that they had to deny their roots, their original language or anything else they brought to our melting pot.  When you mix in many good ingredients, you get a good dish.
   
Those that promote the notion that learning English is not necessary demean and diminish those immigrants they claim to speak for.  By not promoting a common tongue, they are indirectly saying that immigrants are too stupid to learn our language.  Well, most of the immigrants surmounted difficult odds to get here.  Learning the language is just the next step, and most, if confronted with the reality, would knuckle down and do it, to their betterment.  It would be better if  the bleeding hearts would mind their own business.  It would also be better for them to remember our national motto.  Out of the many, one.

Oh, by the way my maternal grandparents were immigrants from Lithuania.  My paternal great grandparents came from Germany and Scotland.  They not only proudly learned the language to the best of their ability but their children spoke English with no accent.  One fought in the Civil War for the Union and was a wounded veteran.  His son became a pattern maker and helped design and build the patterns for the Cord automobile as well as having an impact in the fledgling auto industry, who's son was a decorated combat vet and POW in WWII.  Another was a shop keeper and grocer who helped build a neighborhood of immigrants into an American neighborhood, who's daughter had one son who was a policeman and then businessman and another who is a printer.  Another daughter who had sons who are priests and postal carriers.  And the story continues.

My two cents is that the owner of the restaurant is doing a favor for those who can't speak English.  Learn the language and you'll be better prepared to take advantage of the opportunity our country offers.  In this case, a good steak.

PS:  I'd be willing the to bet that the immigrants who won't learn the language, who refuse to assimilate didn't actually get here legally either.

[atomd]

So now you're saying that there's no such thing as a US Citizen who doesn't speak English? There are born citizens here who have to take English as a 2nd language courses to learn it (if they choose to)! In "their version of the world" (the one where no one speaks English), they do not (and plenty cannot) use the language hardly at all. I was using them as one example...notice how I put "permanently living in the US" right after it the 2nd time I used it. That was in reference to illegals.

Oops...I said "illegals". I'll wait for the "A person cannot be illegal" thing next....

[Joe Demko]

I've had cheesesteaks all over Philadelphia, including at Geno's.  Cheesesteaks are one of the most grossly overrated regional foods; I wouldn't walk across the street to get one.  To be fair, here in the Pittsburgh area we have our own grossly overrated sandwich: the Primanti sandwich.  The only thing more uninspiring than a cheesesteak from Philadelphia is a Primanti's version of it.   All of which is a roundabout way of saying that there is too much time and official attention being wasted on this purveyor of sandwiches.  Who gives a crap what foolish signs he cares to put up in his shop?

[grampster]

Joe,

You're from the Pittsburgh area.  Are you familiar with an area called Fineview?

[Declaration Day]

It's a private business, where the owner should be able to post any sign he deems appropriate.  To me, the debate stops there.

[Paddy]

Grampster pegged it. But if you'd like it delivered a little more directly, consider Theodore Roosevelt's words 100 years ago:

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an American:

In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But, this is predicated upon the mans becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isnt an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag & and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language. And we have room for but one sole loyalty, and that is a loyalty to the American people.  Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[Joe Demko]

Joe,

You're from the Pittsburgh area.  Are you familiar with an area called Fineview?

Yeah, it's near Allegheny General Hospital.  Why do you ask?

[grampster]

My great grandfather owned a house up there.  My dad was raised there.  My dad's uncle wound up with the place and I was there several times in the '50's.

I was a preteen so my memory of the area has faded.  I remember the street car either went down their street or the next one over.  The house was a very large one with a small barn in the back yard iirc.  Lots of trees.  A really pretty neighborhood iirc.  Some other relatives lived nearby and overlooked downtown P'burg where the Allegheny and Monangahela (sp?) formed the Ohio.  Lots of stories from my dad and my grandmother about their growing up there.  Grammaw's brothers were stone masons and pretty rowdy  .

Sorry for the thread drift, I don't run into many folks from around P'burg.  I do from Philly, but I can't understand them.

[Joe Demko]

The view of downtown Pittsburgh from up there is spectacular at night.  We don't have streetcars anymore.  The last of the streetcar system was subsumed by the half-assed subway system back in the 90's.  It's still a nice neighborhood.  You ever get back this way, I'll meet you down there and buy you a beer.

[grampster]

That's a deal!

A couple of years ago, my brother and I wanted to bring our aunt (dad's sister) back for a looksee, but she got frail and then passed away.  Probably still have relatives around the area, but have lost touch over the years.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

So now you're saying that there's no such thing as a US Citizen who doesn't speak English? There are born citizens here who have to take English as a 2nd language courses to learn it (if they choose to)! In "their version of the world" (the one where no one speaks English), they do not (and plenty cannot) use the language hardly at all. I was using them as one example...notice how I put "permanently living in the US" right after it the 2nd time I used it. That was in reference to illegals.

Oops...I said "illegals". I'll wait for the "A person cannot be illegal" thing next....

are you encountering folks who "refuse to learn it? in your extensive dealings with immigrants?  could you quantify or qualify your anecdotal observations for us a bit? so we can appropriatly assign a weght to them
it appears that you move in different circles than i di in 24 years of foodservice and now 11 in construction. one thing i have observed is plenty of immigrants are perceptive. they chose not to speak at all to those they believe, based on their experience, aren't worth the time or trouble.  maybe that accounts for   this "they do not (and plenty cannot) use the language hardly at all. " observation of yours. some of em take fgreat delight in no habla'ing someone they percieve as a pissant

[vaskidmark]

That law prohibits discrimination in employment, public accommodation and housing on the basis of race, ethnicity or sexual orientation

And what evidence was there that this fine American citizen discriminated against anyone on the basis of any of the three criteria in the law?

Is being non-English speaking now a distinguishing characteristic of any of those three categories?  If so, would someone please send me a back-up copy of the original memo on that, because I must have misplaced mine.

Excuse me, I'm going to go out in the back yard and gnaw on my leg until the Prozac starts taking effect.  It just drives me nuts when folks claim a violation of a law that does not even apply to what they think someone is doing to violate the law that does not apply.

stay safe.

skidmark

[jefnvk]

Hmmm...

Should have shown up at his hearing speaking nothing but Icelandic or Basque.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It's a private business, where the owner should be able to post any sign he deems appropriate.  To me, the debate stops there

did he have it inside?  or on the sidewalk?  i think he puffed his chest bto make a noise and stepped on his own pecker. i wouldn't have gotten away with that 30 years ago and its tougher now than then

[grampster]

Riley,

I though about posting that very quote, but my fingers were getting cramped from my own bloviating.

Teddy Roosevelt is one of my favorite presidents.  Two great books to read, The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt and Theodore Rex, by Edmund Morris.  Also I have a reprint of one of Roosevelt's books, American Ideals and Other Essays.  The quote you posted is in that book.

[roo_ster]

TR has it right. 

cd:

Yes, there are some who, for whatever reason, refuse to learn English.  I can still speak with those who speak Spanish, however.

Frankly, most who refuse to learn are worthless pissants not worth my time.  Let them wallow in their own ignorance.

[atomd]

So now you're saying that there's no such thing as a US Citizen who doesn't speak English? There are born citizens here who have to take English as a 2nd language courses to learn it (if they choose to)! In "their version of the world" (the one where no one speaks English), they do not (and plenty cannot) use the language hardly at all. I was using them as one example...notice how I put "permanently living in the US" right after it the 2nd time I used it. That was in reference to illegals.

Oops...I said "illegals". I'll wait for the "A person cannot be illegal" thing next....

are you encountering folks who "refuse to learn it? in your extensive dealings with immigrants?  could you quantify or qualify your anecdotal observations for us a bit? so we can appropriatly assign a weght to them
it appears that you move in different circles than i di in 24 years of foodservice and now 11 in construction. one thing i have observed is plenty of immigrants are perceptive. they chose not to speak at all to those they believe, based on their experience, aren't worth the time or trouble.  maybe that accounts for   this "they do not (and plenty cannot) use the language hardly at all. " observation of yours. some of em take fgreat delight in no habla'ing someone they percieve as a pissant

I'm sure that happens sometimes but it would be foolish to use that excuse for everyone who I think doesn't speak English. There's no denying that many people living in the US do not speak English. That's a fact. Not all of them outright refuse to learn but they still do not speak English. You wanted a personal example or 2 of someone who refuses to learn the language? Here's one example: I know a couple from Mexico who have been living in the US for around 30 something years now. I worked with one of their sons. His mother speaks very little English. She goes out more than her husband and does all of the shopping, etc so she is exposed to it more than the him. She still has trouble understanding quite a bit of English though. The husband on the other hand does not speak English AT ALL. Not only does he not speak it, but he refuses to allow it to be spoken in their home by anyone (or on the phone either). From what I gathered, he finds it insulting that anyone would want him to change and had some idea that it was insulting to his heritage. His wife would have probably learned the language better if it wasn't for the him. He used to have a job but he never had to use English while working. At the bar and the local store he went to, he never needed to use English either. The husband would have friends over for dinner often and some of his guests are the exact same way he is.

The circles you were in might be different than what I've seen also because I've worked with people in food service who didn't speak a lick of English. I'll add another example if one wasn't enough. Almost the entire kitchen staff at the local Chinese food place doesn't speak a word of English...really. They refuse to learn English because they plan on moving back to China one day and think it's wasteful among other reasons (some have been here well over 10 years now). They all live together in one complex, own a van and they have one friend (the host at the restaurant) who speaks English and has a driver's license. I have also worked with many day laborers in trucking and many of them did not speak any English at all. And no, they weren't just not talking to me in English because they chose not to. I've seen some men almost get seriously injured because they did not understand what someone was trying to tell them. If they had understood, they certainly would have done differently. I could add more examples but I'm not sure exactly how much evidence you need here. These people are out there and they aren't one in a million. Whether they outright refuse or just never "bothered" to learn the language, either way it's a fact that there are many people in the US who cannot speak English....for whatever reason. Just because you haven't met them doesn't mean they don't exist.

We can debate the details for days but my initial point was that they are a burden on society. If you don't think so, you have a right to your opinion but you have yet to provide any evidence to the contrary...even though that was the single point that started this discussion to begin with.