Girl scouts and rules for men

[SalukiFan]

Salukifan:

I was afraid that I might sound too "PC".  I assure you that it was not my intention.  I am not calling the ACLU over this issue, nor are you going to see my face on the news leading a crusade.

Totally understood.  I threw the PC comment in mostly as a joke.

Great post, by the way.

Thank you.  I feel strongly that girls need to be taught to be able to discriminate between the creeps of the world and real men.  The Girl Scouts are trying to protect girls in their way but sheltering them isn't going to help them as much as they hope it will.

I was a Girl Scout years ago, my mother was an assistant troop leader and I've volunteered with them in the past as an adult.  Some Girl Scout leaders and staff are reasonable people, some are a little loopy but well-meaning and a few are nuts.  Overall though, I think if you make an argument that having a two adult rule will make the girls even safer, they would be persuaded by that logic.  Good luck!

[280plus]

Does anyone else miss the days when the only sexual misconduct to worry about was that the Boy Scouts stayed on their side of the lake and the Girl Scouts stayed on theirs?

[Guest]

Does anyone else miss the days when the only sexual misconduct to worry about was that the Boy Scouts stayed on their side of the lake and the Girl Scouts stayed on theirs?

Those days never actually happened, people just pretended that bad things didnt happen and swept any abberant behavior under the rug. Ignoring the problem did not make it better.

[280plus]

I believe the last 40 years or so has led to an increase in these events. I blame the breakdown in moral fiber in this country. No adult I  spent  time alone with regarding Boy Scouts in the late 60's to early 70's ever approached me inappropriately. I know a couple of the scouts did FYI. But the adults were all everbody's dad. Not outsiders that have attached themselves to the organization. MOMS? Nowhere to be found. Most mom's didn't want any part of sleeping on the ground with bugs and all. So it wasn't like they "couldn't" come. They didn't want to! The troop I was involved in as an adult had little or no dads and lot's of moms. And most of those scared me. You recall recently 4 adult males being electrocuted setting up a tent at the national jamboree? I could easily see that happening with the adults I was dealing with. Not all of them, but definitely the majority.

While I agree with you that it WAS happening I contend the incidents have increased and it's not that we are "more aware" now. I understand the need for such policies, although I do believe it's about lawsuits against the organization more than anything.

I just think it's a shame that such policies need to be in place. It detracts from the whole experience.

My apologies for longing for a simpler time.

Gee, I've been awfully apologetic in this thread!  SORRY!!

[Guest]

No adult I  spent  time alone with regarding Boy Scouts in the late 60's to early 70's ever approached me inappropriately.

Most boyscouts today would say the exact same thing about their scouting experience, it has never been a common occurance.

The fact is that during the past weird sex crimes were simply not reported, either to police or in the press. Today that are the *favorite* material of the media, and there is no longer any taboo regarding involvment of the authorites. I have yet to see any actual evidence to indicate that this problem has actually gotten worse in any way.

[Stand_watie]

No adult I  spent  time alone with regarding Boy Scouts in the late 60's to early 70's ever approached me inappropriately.

Most boyscouts today would say the exact same thing about their scouting experience, it has never been a common occurance.

The fact is that during the past weird sex crimes were simply not reported, either to police or in the press. Today that are the *favorite* material of the media, and there is no longer any taboo regarding involvment of the authorites. I have yet to see any actual evidence to indicate that this problem has actually gotten worse in any way.

While I tend to agree that this problem has always been with us, I also think there's a strong correlation between rates of biologically unrelated people living in the household and sex abuse, and I think the rates of broken families has risen dramatically recently, at least in some sub-groups if not the whole population.

No offense to the step-dad's and moms on the boards. I'm sure you love your stepkids like they were your biological own, but your doing so is despite nature rather than because of it (and in fact it takes a lot better a person to do so than it does to love your own biological flesh and blood).

While people are certainly more capable of overiding their own natural urges than lions, watch the discovery channel and see what a new daddy does when he takes over the pride..he kills the young males and copulates with the young females as soon as they're old enough - which the bio-dad didn't do.

Most child abuse  takes place in the home. Genuine incest and physical abuse against your kids is the ultimate taboo against the concience, incest with a step-child is another link down the chain. Sex with a girlfriend's daughter is another step away, sex with the neighborhood ho's daughter is another step away, and sex with the kids of the folks you buy crack from and occasionally crash on their couch is yet another step away.

A child sex crimes investigator said to me (and I'm sure he was overstating the case for emphasis, but there can be truth in hyperbole), "it's always the f***** boyfriend, the newspapers always say 'father', but it's always some guy the woman's sleeping with, not really the kid's dad".

[roo_ster]

And, were *I* a female pedophile, Girl Scouts would be prime hunting grounds... ESPECIALLY with the above mentioned rule. Remember: we call pedophiles "predators" for a reason. And ANY predator goes where it has easiest access to it's chosen prey...

The GSA is infested with lesbians up & down the organization.  Yes, they do prey on some of the girls in their care.  No girl of mine will be alone with any single adult, whatever sex, in the GSA.

[SalukiFan]

The GSA is infested with lesbians up & down the organization.  Yes, they do prey on some of the girls in their care.  No girl of mine will be alone with any single adult, whatever sex, in the GSA.

OMG!  Lesbians!  I thought I sprayed for those!  

Here I thought we were having a nice little conversation about how it's wrong to assume adults who are attracted to adult women are likely to be interested in sexually abusing children.  The two adults policy just makes sense but let's not cast aspersions on others.  

Edit - Added emoticon and explanation

[Declaration Day]

I would like to make another point about this topic.  So far, we've only spoken about sexual abuse.  But a child could also claim that an adult hit her, or used foul language in front of her, both of which could be grounds for a lawsuit these days.  

If a girl scout were alone with one woman, as the rules allow, certainly that woman could hit or swear at the child, or atleast be accused of it.

[Stand_watie]

I would like to make another point about this topic.  So far, we've only spoken about sexual abuse.  But a child could also claim that and adult hit her, or used foul language in front of her, both of which could be grounds for a lawsuit these days.  

If a girl scout were alone with one woman, as the rules allow, certainly that woman could hit or swear at the child, or atleast be accused of it.

Or a lot worse. I'll be politically incorrect for the other side now. Women as a general trait (sweeping generalities here, perhaps lantern jawed lebians lean more toward the masculine traits than I do myself, and Christopher Lowell more feminine than my wife), are a lot more trusting than men - especially with intimate partners. A woman (who genuinely cares about right/wrong) alone with a girl is a lot more likely I think than a man (with the same amount of concern for child welfare) to trust her boyfriend/dad/son/brother to "just watch the girls for a minute while I put the dog out" than a man is with his buddy/son/dad/etc.

The two adult rule would make better sense all around.

After rereading I'd like to add another edit. "Lantern jawed lesbians" is probably offensive to some people, but it was the best descripor I could think at the time for women (and definitely not neccesarily lesbians) who are born with physical traits that hollywood has taught us belong exclusively to men. Also a lot of women (a number in my family) are what I'd call 'intellectually masculine', meaning they brook no bull***, use 'east' and 'west' when giving directions, are assertive, can buy a car and get a good deal with no help from a man etc. Two of my aunts (who are definitely straight) are "spinsters" because societal mores wouldn't let them be that way and still land a masculine man (also didn't help that they didn't attempt to hide that they were highly intelligent and not willing to settle for losers).

 My point to the edit meaning that when I said above "sweeping generalities" I meant very generalized traits rather than the sex of a person neccessarily determining their psyche.

[280plus]

So far, we've only spoken about sexual abuse.  But a child could also claim that an adult hit her, or used foul language in front of her, both of which could be grounds for a lawsuit these days.

Yes that IS a good point. I had experience with one violently abusive scoutmaster in the younger scout days, he was quickly relieved when word got around. As a matter of fact he was the ONLY adult with the troop on the campout where the most serious of his actions took place. That could never take place today as there must be at least 2 adults or there will be no campout, hike etc...

Quite the mixed bag of issues I'd say.