Author Topic: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban  (Read 10018 times)

Fudgieghost

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2007, 06:08:08 PM »
Quote
Sounds like a potentially nice business to set up, say, in Reno or Lake Tahoe, or boosting sales in the typical Ace Hardware.  Folks will want their high-wattage halogens, sewing machine lights, and 4 watt hallway nightlights.

Yeah, can't you just see all the gas-station quickie marts near the Cali border with big signs "We have incand. light bulbs!"  There'd be crates of them around the store and the pumps---like they have now when they have a sale on Pepsi or Coke. . .


Ah, yeah.                            Oh I forgot to mention.  . . . . we're doomed.

280plus

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2007, 12:49:40 AM »
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For some reason, during that repair, a razor knife found it's way inside the tank and mysteriously cut out that plastic insert.
Yea, you gotta keep an eye on those pesky razor knives.   shocked
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Firethorn

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2007, 02:19:54 AM »
First, from my reading they're targeting standard incandescents.  Not 'specialty' bulbs like Halogens, utility, or night light bulbs.  Though things like a sewing machine or night light bulb are more likely to be replaced by LEDs.  Your stove light is unlikely to be replaced by a fluorescent any time soon.  Putting a cold temperature type in the refridgerator would eliminate much of the head the bulb currently produces, requiring less energy to cool the fridge back down.  While there are some downsides, there are also many benefits to CFLs, and they're getting better.  Personally, I object to the idea of forcing people.  My favorite part of them is that I've never had to replace a CFL yet.  Incandescents go out all the time in comparison.

Those of you complaining about the light, have you tried any of the CFLs recently?  I know there's likely to be a number of the nasty older ones out there, especially given their long life span, but the modern ones are much better.  Their solid state electronic ballast kicks the frequency up from 60 hz up into the thousands, which also helps take care of any noise problems.  My house is an older one, and the previous owner has some big tube ones up that flicker.  This means that I need to replace the ballast. 

As for the toilets, I agree with you.  Still, many cities are having water problems, doing a full flush every time is wasteful.  I wish they'd come out with the two lever flush systems I saw in europe.  For simple needs use the small flush, for the big ones use the large flush.  I've also read that many of the problems came from poorly designed low-flow toilets, and many poor ones are still installed simply because they're cheap.  Then again, it noted that some of the expensive ones performed poorly too, so finding reviews might be a good idea.

Look at it this way.  You're much more likely to be able to go 'off grid' and live independant of utilities with CFLs and low flow toilets than without.   grin

CNYCacher

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2007, 05:03:12 AM »
100% of the energy that a light bulb uses goes into making light or making heat.  Flourescent bulbs have a higher light to heat ratio than incandescent bulbs, which is why they are cheaper to run.  The energy use PER light unit is lower.

What are the REAL savings in a home that is being actively heated. . . especially if that home uses electric heat?   Sure, you are spending more money on running the lights, but i bet that means you are spending less on your heating.

If you built two sealed insulated rooms inside a large cold room, and in each room placed an electric heater run on a thermostat, and place an incandescent bulb in one room and a flourescent bulb of similar light output in the other room, I bet the energy use will be very similar, and you won't see anywhere near the projected savings.
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roo_ster

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2007, 05:10:25 AM »
I really don't think most people are attached enough to one make of lighbulb to start buying them out of state. Most people will buy whatever is most convenient. Nobody is likely to care a whole lot if there is a small group of people using lighbulbs from Arizona.

How many people have high-flow toilets smuggled in from Canadia? I can only think of one.
You willing to give up the source to an interested customer?  PM me at THR if'n you are.

I have a high-flow toilet!!!  You can take my toilet when you pry it from my cold, dead...  umm

 grin
I feel the same way.   grin

My current house was built in 1959 and both toilets have the full 3.5gal of flushing power, as G-d and Thomas Crapper intended.  We have remodeled one bathroom, taking tender loving care to preserve the near-irreplacable porcelain marvel.

I do worry about new(er) construction, though.  If I ever build my own house, I'll have to find a source for 3.5gal toilets.

Let us just say that guys over 6' and 200lbs aren't well-served by the currently mandated low-power toilets.
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mtnbkr

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2007, 05:25:18 AM »
Let us just say that guys over 6' and 200lbs aren't well-served by the currently mandated low-power toilets.
Are you trying to tell us you're full of shocked

Chris

crt360

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2007, 10:23:57 AM »
 

I have a high-flow toilet!!!  You can take my toilet when you pry it from my cold, dead...  umm

 grin
I feel the same way.   grin

My current house was built in 1959 and both toilets have the full 3.5gal of flushing power, as G-d and Thomas Crapper intended.  We have remodeled one bathroom, taking tender loving care to preserve the near-irreplacable porcelain marvel.

I do worry about new(er) construction, though.  If I ever build my own house, I'll have to find a source for 3.5gal toilets.

Let us just say that guys over 6' and 200lbs aren't well-served by the currently mandated low-power toilets.

I agree, what's the benefit of the low-flow/volume toilet if you have to flush it several times per use?  I think they must be for really small people who eat grass and poop like a rabbit.

As for the lightbulb thing, I have always hated fluorescent light.  I hate the flicker, I hate the buzz, I hate the glare, and they've always been too damn bright, but I bought some of the newer twisty looking kind and they're alright.  They don't buzz or flicker, they're not too bright and they actually put out a warmer light than the incandescents they replaced.  I think they ought to be recommended and maybe promoted with discounts - the city could send out coupons with the water bill - but not required by law.

Now, to find a cheap LED desk lamp.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2007, 10:45:14 AM »
California has two other new laws:

1) If your car wipers are on, your headlights should be on too.
2) No spanking of kids 3 years old and below.

Battery disposal is an old law and is still massively ignored.

Manedwolf

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2007, 10:53:28 AM »
California has two other new laws:

1) If your car wipers are on, your headlights should be on too.
2) No spanking of kids 3 years old and below.

Battery disposal is an old law and is still massively ignored.

I'm surprised they've not yet mandated Canada-like Daytime Running Lights required on cars.
My Accord, a 2, turns the lights off and on when I want them to be off and on. I'd noticed some other brands of cars now have the lights on if the car's on. O_o

Gewehr98

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2007, 11:30:12 AM »
The wipers on/headlights on law isn't new.  Florida's had it for a while. 

Now if they just did something about the smacktards who feel they can either drive at night with no headlights, or just the parking lights, or aftermarket fog/driving lamps, leaving their taillights and side marker lights dark and generally being a liability to themselves and others.   undecided
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wingnutx

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2007, 12:07:48 PM »
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You willing to give up the source to an interested customer?

Al Bundy.

Thor

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2007, 12:24:18 PM »
I feel the same way.   grin

My current house was built in 1959 and both toilets have the full 3.5gal of flushing power, as G-d and Thomas Crapper intended.  We have remodeled one bathroom, taking tender loving care to preserve the near-irreplacable porcelain marvel.

I do worry about new(er) construction, though.  If I ever build my own house, I'll have to find a source for 3.5gal toilets.

Let us just say that guys over 6' and 200lbs aren't well-served by the currently mandated low-power toilets.

We just built a new house and moved in a year ago. We had Toto toilets installed. They do the job pretty danged well AND are low water use toilets, which is an added benefit when one is on well water. (less electric used to pump the extra water) BTW, I'm 6'5" and 250 

I just went out and spent $32 on four 200 watt equivalent fluorescent bulbs today for the garage. I had 600 watts of incandescent bulbs in there and at a power usage of 40 watts per fluorescent, I've cut my consumption in excess of 2/3rds. I just absolutely HATE government mandates!!
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Declaration Day

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2007, 12:45:55 PM »
I live just outside of Detroit and have traveled to Canada many times.  There's a store over there, conveniently located close to the tunnel that takes you back to Michigan.  Its called "Howdy Neighbor", and they specialize in 3.5 gal toilets!

MechAg94

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2007, 03:19:44 PM »
I love my fluorescent lights in most cases.  Down here, I am cooling the house most of the year so less heat from fluescents is a good thing.  I mainly try to use them in place of higher wattage lights.  I have 3 or 4 of those tall floor lamps.  The incadescent ones use 300 watts, the fluorescent versions use much less and are better made on average. 

In my experience, I read better with bright white fluorescent light than incandescent lights anyway.  That is what reading lamps are for.

I do hate govt mandates though.  If they really want to cut power use, why don't they just start taxing Californians by the KW used?  I guess they would lose their jobs if they did that.  I wonder why.
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280plus

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2007, 12:21:37 AM »
+1 on the Toto BUT you have to make sure you get the big one. There's a smaleer version that is, of course, cheaper, that doesn't work quite as well. The secret is in the size of the passage from bowl to plumbing. In the full sized Toto you can flush a tennis ball through it, not so with the smaller version.

I wish I could remember the "brand name" of Al Bundy's toilet but I DO remember the line, "Step up to the bowl and make it a double!"  cheesy
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Firethorn

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2007, 02:10:48 AM »
Now, to find a cheap LED desk lamp.

It's probably not going to be cheap or as effective as a fluorescent.  One of the things about a LED is that it's actually naturally a bit like a spot light.  With a desk lamp you generally want a wide even throw of light, with not much distance to do it over.  I'd really suggest finding a good lamp with an electronic balast to try out.  You might find you're pleasantly suprised.

White LED's used to be only about as efficient as an incandescent, but with the added advantage of virtual indestructability.  They have improved this, I think the best at this point throw about twice as much light per watt than incandescent.

Red LED's are very efficient, blue not so much, but a white LED is a blue one with a phosphor coating to add more spectrum to make white, and the phosphor costs efficiency.

mtnbkr

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2007, 03:39:48 AM »
Just had a thought...

What would it take to install one of those industrial toilets like you see at public restrooms.  You know, the ones without a tank and all the chrome piping...

Chris

crt360

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2007, 09:07:06 AM »
Now, to find a cheap LED desk lamp.

It's probably not going to be cheap or as effective as a fluorescent.  One of the things about a LED is that it's actually naturally a bit like a spot light.  With a desk lamp you generally want a wide even throw of light, with not much distance to do it over.  I'd really suggest finding a good lamp with an electronic balast to try out.  You might find you're pleasantly suprised.

White LED's used to be only about as efficient as an incandescent, but with the added advantage of virtual indestructability.  They have improved this, I think the best at this point throw about twice as much light per watt than incandescent.

Red LED's are very efficient, blue not so much, but a white LED is a blue one with a phosphor coating to add more spectrum to make white, and the phosphor costs efficiency.

You're right.  The ones I've seen certainly weren't cheap, and they probably don't put out quite as much light.  I'm looking for "just enough" light without the cheap, bulky housing that most of the fluorescent desk lamps seem to have.  If I can find one that I like enough, I might end up trying one of the fluorescents anyway.  Thanks.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2007, 10:22:00 AM »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
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crt360

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2007, 01:35:43 PM »
That looks pretty cool.  I bet I could make a Mooninite if I had a few of those.
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Sindawe

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2007, 02:06:42 PM »
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Now, to find a cheap LED desk lamp
Perhaps you could retrofit an existing lamp with an LED bulb?

http://www.ledtronics.com/

I have CF in the majority of the light fixtures in my home.  Great for the bath in the mornings since they take a few warm up and come to full brightness, thereby eliminating the nuclear blast of light to darkness adapted eyes.  Now if I can just find some that are dimmer compatible.

Mandating their use however is [Art's Grandma].
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crt360

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2007, 03:33:05 PM »
Sindawe, thanks for the helpful link.  I'll definitely be digging through their site for a project or two.
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Fly320s

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2007, 10:43:19 AM »
Here's a novel idea for California to save money.  Turn off all of those damn street lights.

Every time I fly at night near a major city (LA, NYC, Dallas) I think that I should be in the light bulb business.  Or at least the electricity business.  There are millions of lights on all night long in a big city.  Seems like a waste to me.
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Firethorn

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2007, 10:52:07 AM »
Perhaps you could retrofit an existing lamp with an LED bulb?

The problem with this is that a LED bulb is tiny.  A 12 watt bulb is, relativly speaking, a massive one.   Add in the tendency to act like a spotlight and you end up having to parallel bulbs in order to get a usable amount of light.  After that, it's more usefull to get a lamp designed for them.

Quote
I have CF in the majority of the light fixtures in my home.  Great for the bath in the mornings since they take a few warm up and come to full brightness, thereby eliminating the nuclear blast of light to darkness adapted eyes.  Now if I can just find some that are dimmer compatible.

They have some, though they have to be used with a special kind of dimmer.  I don't know the details.

Quote
Mandating their use however is [Art's Grandma].

Agreed.

Quote from: Fly320s
Every time I fly at night near a major city (LA, NYC, Dallas) I think that I should be in the light bulb business.  Or at least the electricity business.  There are millions of lights on all night long in a big city.  Seems like a waste to me.

They already have enough problems with crime and accidents, don't they?   undecided

Still, I'd imagine turning off even 10% of them would save enough juice to make the switch from incandescents moot.

grislyatoms

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Re: CA Proposes Light Bulb Ban
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2007, 11:12:14 AM »
I can see one of those public service announcements now:

"If you need light bulbs (or insert other mundane household item here) just come on down to the Kalifornia State Lightbulb Store (one conveniently located in every city) for new light bulbs. Be certain to bring your Kalifornia Lightbulb license, your Realid, your birth certificate, SSN, military service record, mortgage loan papers, copy of your latest, notarized utility bill, make sure your bar code tattoo is legible and we will get your light bulbs to you in 2-3 weeks.

Remember, it's easy, and it's the LAW!"

A public service announcement paid for by the Kalifornia Commission for Oppressive and Bloody Stupid Laws

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