Author Topic: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?  (Read 27395 times)

Green Lantern

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Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« on: November 04, 2008, 10:59:13 PM »
So...I think it's time to hit up the activism HARD and FAST.

Let your elected officials, from BHO on down to State legislators know that you will NOT stand for AWBII, or any other un-Constitutional CRAP that may be in the works.

Joining up to one NATIONAL and one STATE 2A advocacy group (at a bare MINIMUM) strikes me as a must too...

Anything else?

Fjolnirsson

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 11:01:34 PM »
Wow, way to quit. A little early to throw in the towel, don't you think? I admit, it looks bad, but come on...
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Lbys

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 11:05:28 PM »
Early, perhaps, but the cat's in the bag.  O'Biden's been called by all the major networks and outlets.  It's over.  Now what?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 11:06:48 PM »
Now what?

That's it. The Great Experiment is over.

De Selby

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 11:09:34 PM »
Now what?

That's it. The Great Experiment is over.

Because a candidate who was barely different from the other, but just happened to be different in a way that you don't like, won the election?  Yeah right.

After more than a decade of conservative political organization and confidence, I never thought I would live to see the despair and tooth gnashing that I saw in liberals after 2000 and 2004.  I mean, I knew lawyers who cried because Bush got re-elected. 

It's just a mind trip for me seeing it with conservatives now.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 11:11:10 PM »
Early, perhaps, but the cat's in the bag.  O'Biden's been called by all the major networks and outlets.  It's over.  Now what?

Now is the time to go after the people who caused this. The moderate Republicans.

As a minimum, one would expect that we should never see McCain's face ever again.
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Sindawe

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 11:11:25 PM »
Quote
After more than a decade of conservative political organization and confidence, I never thought I would live to see the despair and tooth gnashing that I saw in liberals after 2000 and 2004.  I mean, I knew lawyers who cried because Bush got re-elected.  

It's just a mind trip for me seeing it with conservatives now.

Great Googly Moogly!  I agree with shootingstudent!  This must truely be the End of Days!!!!
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Fjolnirsson

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 11:11:31 PM »
Don't give up yet. that's what the media wants everyone to think. Look at the percentages. They called Ohio for Obama with only 44% of precints reporting. I'll believe he's won when all the votes are in. I have to admit, it's discouraging.

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agricola

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 11:12:17 PM »
Because a candidate who was barely different from the other, but just happened to be different in a way that you don't like, won the election?  Yeah right.

After more than a decade of conservative political organization and confidence, I never thought I would live to see the despair and tooth gnashing that I saw in liberals after 2000 and 2004.  I mean, I knew lawyers who cried because Bush got re-elected. 

It's just a mind trip for me seeing it with conservatives now.

This is true, though I can understand why people are upset, and I think there was quite a difference between the candidates.  

As you mention 2004, I would point out that it has taken 8 years of Bush to put Obama into office.  Maybe 4 years of Obama will have a similar effect - after all, it did for Carter.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 11:13:20 PM »
We won't survive four years.

I'm hoping for a year max before he's perp-walked out of of the White House if Rezko squeals. It's the only hope now.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 11:14:20 PM »
We won't survive four years.

I'm hoping for a year max before he's perp-walked out of of the White House if Rezko squeals. It's the only hope now.

I want to get your predictions down.

You're expecting a major collapse.

What will this manifest in?

Riots? Civil war? 9-11 grade terrorism? Inquiring minds want to know.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MikePGS

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 11:16:01 PM »
Two years until The House is re-elected, and a third of the senate. Let's get cracking. If you are not a member of a state or federal RKBA organization, now is the time to join one. Its not like we didn't see this coming (Obama has led the entire time) so lets not act surprised. Go ahead and have your private little cry if you need one, then come back and put your game face on. They can only win if we let them.
"The people in the gun culture have a better safety record than any police department in the nation, but in
several states actually prohibit us from using guns for self-protection, and in all the other states except one
they make us buy a license. They tax us so we can have more cops, and when crime still goes up, they tax
us more and ban more of our guns."
John Ross, Unintended Consequences

De Selby

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 11:16:44 PM »
Now is the time to go after the people who caused this. The moderate Republicans.

As a minimum, one would expect that we should never see McCain's face ever again.

Let's be fair: Supporting giant welfare programs for corporations and a huge expansion of executive power, including the claimed authority to make war without anyone's permission, is not a set of "moderate" positions.

How about this for a new Republican agenda:  For every cut in spending they engineer, there is an equal and fairly distributed cut in personal income taxes that corresponds to the exact amount of the cut.

The problem with the republican party is that they tried to hard to implement back-channel welfare policies: they would use the government to grant huge handouts to favored clientele, and then impose the cost on the public via crushing public debts, which will have to be paid from money that belongs to us, and should be used for our benefit.  

If they had cut spending in tandem with their tax cuts, instead of funding the cuts with massive public debt that ends up squarely on the shoulders of the public, they might have a case to make.

But definitely, you can't win an election by yelling "socialist" when you've handed out as much free welfare as the Republicans have.  That's just wishful thinking.  
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

makattak

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 11:17:11 PM »
I want to get your predictions down.

You're expecting a major collapse.

What will this manifest in?

Riots? Civil war? 9-11 grade terrorism? Inquiring minds want to know.

If you want my predictions?

Depression.

No, not me. My worth is not bound up in the future of a country, no matter how dear to me.

I mean the economy. We're at a dangerous point right now and we have politicians who, ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, vowed to raise taxes on investment. Even if it hurt the economy.

We're in for a depression.

I'm just glad my job will be relatively safe- otherwise, I'd fear for my family's well being. (Though it's just me and my wife now).

I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

charby

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 11:17:57 PM »
Now is the time to go after the people who caused this. The moderate Republicans.

As a minimum, one would expect that we should never see McCain's face ever again.

Actually I blame the right wing fringe, when conservative thinking non Republicans hear the word Republicans they think of the right wing fringe.

Republican party needs to build a foundation in fiscal conservatism and smaller government. Personal freedom and the ability to succeed financially if one puts in the hard work.

The Republican party needs to step away from the right to life, anti gay marriage and hard core anti-immigration. People look at these ideas and some of the people who beat these ideas at the pulpit as lunatics. I actually can't blame them either, there are some kooks I have met.



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makattak

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 11:19:12 PM »
Let's be fair: Supporting giant welfare programs for corporations and a huge expansion of executive power, including the claimed authority to make war without anyone's permission, is not a set of "moderate" positions.

How about this for a new Republican agenda:  For every cut in spending they engineer, there is an equal and fairly distributed cut in personal income taxes that corresponds to the exact amount of the cut.

The problem with the republican party is that they tried to hard to implement back-channel welfare policies: they would use the government to grant huge handouts to favored clientele, and then impose the cost on the public via crushing public debts, which will have to be paid from money that belongs to us, and should be used for our benefit. 

If they had cut spending in tandem with their tax cuts, instead of funding the cuts with massive public debt that ends up squarely on the shoulders of the public, they might have a case to make.

But definitely, you can't win an election by yelling "socialist" when you've handed out as much free welfare as the Republicans have.  That's just wishful thinking. 

Actually, I think your idea is wrong.

We should tie tax cuts and spending together.

We should cut spending. PERIOD. It's the right thing to do.

We should cut taxes. PERIOD. It's the right things to do.

No connection. It should simply be- the government is WAY TOO BIG. Everything is getting cut.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Bogie

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 11:19:58 PM »
Rezko's dead. He just doesn't know it yet.
 
Or he'll disappear to some third-world hellhole, where he'll have a big house, servants, and an airstrip with small private army, until the lone karate master infiltrates by night...

IMHO, the major problem is that there aren't enough moderate republicans... Or moderate democrats. The voters have gravitated to the fringes.

The Republicans HAD to field a reform candidate. WHY? Hillary spent millions pushing the reform message, and it stuck. It stuck HARD.
 
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MikePGS

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 11:21:38 PM »

Quote
Republican party needs to build a foundation in fiscal conservatism and smaller government. Personal freedom and the ability to succeed financially if one puts in the hard work.

The Republican party needs to step away from the right to life, anti gay marriage and hard core anti-immigration. People look at these ideas and some of the people who beat these ideas at the pulpit as lunatics. I actually can't blame them either, there are some kooks I have met.




Exactly. Myself and my fellow libertarians should fold ourselves into the republican party and create reforms from the inside. Because really the libertarian party is what the republicans purport to be.
"The people in the gun culture have a better safety record than any police department in the nation, but in
several states actually prohibit us from using guns for self-protection, and in all the other states except one
they make us buy a license. They tax us so we can have more cops, and when crime still goes up, they tax
us more and ban more of our guns."
John Ross, Unintended Consequences

Bogie

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 11:24:28 PM »
Quote
The Republican party needs to step away from the right to life, anti gay marriage and hard core anti-immigration. People look at these ideas and some of the people who beat these ideas at the pulpit as lunatics. I actually can't blame them either, there are some kooks I have met.

Concur. There are a LOT of gay folks who are fiscally conservative. Who own guns. Who are people who we would get along with.
 
And they're scared to death of the right wing religious fundamentalists.
 
Where will the thumper votes go? How "big" is the thumper block?
 
If the Republicans lose 10% (and they ain't going to the democrats), and gains 15%, that makes some serious sense.
 
We've got 1/20/09 coming up fast - what do you think Obummer's first action will be?
 
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Manedwolf

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 11:26:34 PM »

We've got 1/20/09 coming up fast - what do you think Obummer's first action will be?
 

Duh. Wealth redistribution.

Wonder if Ayers will be appointed Secretary of Education.

roo_ster

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 11:27:08 PM »
The Republican party needs to step away from the right to life, anti gay marriage and hard core anti-immigration. People look at these ideas and some of the people who beat these ideas at the pulpit as lunatics. I actually can't blame them either, there are some kooks I have met.

Yet, two out of the three are wildly popular while the other one is supported by a majority or near-majority, depending on the wording of the poll.

And NONE of them played a role in the general election.  Laying the blame for the Republican loss on those issues is an exercise delusion.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 11:30:59 PM »
Let's be fair: Supporting giant welfare programs for corporations and a huge expansion of executive power, including the claimed authority to make war without anyone's permission, is not a set of "moderate" positions.

How about this for a new Republican agenda:  For every cut in spending they engineer, there is an equal and fairly distributed cut in personal income taxes that corresponds to the exact amount of the cut.

The problem with the republican party is that they tried to hard to implement back-channel welfare policies: they would use the government to grant huge handouts to favored clientele, and then impose the cost on the public via crushing public debts, which will have to be paid from money that belongs to us, and should be used for our benefit.  

If they had cut spending in tandem with their tax cuts, instead of funding the cuts with massive public debt that ends up squarely on the shoulders of the public, they might have a case to make.

But definitely, you can't win an election by yelling "socialist" when you've handed out as much free welfare as the Republicans have.  That's just wishful thinking.  

Word.
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charby

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 11:31:11 PM »
And NONE of them played a role in the general election.  Laying the blame for the Republican loss on those issues is an exercise delusion.

The last 4-8 years of those messages being beaten to death is what lead to a Republican loss. If those really were how the majority of republican voters felt, than Tancredo, Fred Thompson or Brownbeck would have been the Republican candidates.

Two of those three ideas can be easily tied to GWB and the last one loosely.

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De Selby

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 11:31:45 PM »
I think the idea that giving up a social agenda (which actually does provide Republicans with a popular vote base) to focus on being "fiscally conservative" is misguided, because it presumes that republicans actually are fiscal conservatives.

The republican party hasn't been fiscally conservative for decades-check out the budget deficits and national debt from Reagan on.  Government spending has soared to unimaginable heights under the most recent round of republican leadership.  

The difference is that democrats tend to spend government money on programs to garner more popular votes: if you come up with a welfare or medicare program, that might benefit a few million people.  You have some serious vote power from that.

On the other hand, spending all the public's money on weapons systems, wars, and a byzantine security apparatus (think Homeland Security and the much ridiculed TSA baggies on airplanes), garners almost no votes.  The employees who work in these industries are not numerous enough to swing an election, and all of the contracts tend to amount to welfare when you consider the "service" being purchased with public money.

This is the fundamental conservative problem in America: the party of conservatives has become a socialist party just like the democrats, but it spends all its government bonus on a relatively narrow sector.  When the economy was fine, that was all well and good, and the social/moral/character themes were more than enough to supply the party with votes....but now that large numbers of people are feeling a pinch, they're obviously going to vote for the party that is more likely to spend public money in their favor.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

roo_ster

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Re: Game over for Republicans - NOW what?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 11:38:30 PM »

Concur. There are a LOT of gay folks who are fiscally conservative. Who own guns. Who are people who we would get along with.
 
And they're scared to death of the right wing religious fundamentalists.
 
Where will the thumper votes go? How "big" is the thumper block?
 
If the Republicans lose 10% (and they ain't going to the democrats), and gains 15%, that makes some serious sense.
 
We've got 1/20/09 coming up fast - what do you think Obummer's first action will be?
 


Homosexuals make up from 1%-3% of the population.  Those who are right-leaning make up some small minority of that 1%-3%.

Evangelicals make up about 30% of the population.

Even if you convinced every homosexual to vote Republican you would never make up for the loss in evangelical voters if you jettisoned what keeps evangelicals in the Republican coalition. 

Where they gonna go?  They'll stay home, like they did before they became politicized in reaction to the excesses of the 1960s.  See, politics is not the driving force in their lives.  They can and have lived with minimal interaction in the political sphere.

Face it: any conservative/right-leaning coalition that can actually win in America will include fundies.
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roo_ster

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