Author Topic: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth  (Read 23209 times)

Matthew Carberry

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Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« on: April 20, 2011, 06:58:13 PM »
I sent mssa an email and heard back from Gary Marbut himself.  My text is in red.

Been following this with a great deal of interest and got excited on Monday with Gary Marbut’s post on a hunting website Monday that the bill had passed the Second Reading of the Senate.  I looked at the Legislature’s site and found nothing and it doesn’t show as even having been on the agenda Monday through today.

Did Gary jump the gun a little?  What’s the status?



Matthew,

The conference committee report on HB 271 passed the House on Second and Third Reading, but is still awaiting action by the Senate.  We were told that the Senate would bring HB 271 up on Monday, but that didn't happen and it keeps getting put off by Senate leadership, for reasons unknown to us.  We are very near the end of our 90-day session so we sure hope the Senate acts on HB 271 soon.  Stay tuned.

BTW, a permit has not been required for two decades to carry concealed in 99.4% of Montana (outside of city limits) or to carry openly anywhere in Montana.  Our HB 271 would make the remaining 6/10ths of 1% like the rest has been since 1991.  Under HB 271, the only qualification for carrying concealed inside city limits would be that the person is eligible to legally possess a handgun under state or federal law.

A couple questions I’ve been getting conflicting word on, does the bill your Senate will be looking at still have the “carry of training card” requirement?  Does it still allow muni’s to “opt-out”?  Obviously neither are preferable but if it gets it passed, as I’m fond of pointing out to all-or-nothing-ists on “our side”, it can be cleaned up later when it isn’t so high profile.

The conference committee stripped the training and training credential feature out of HB 271.  The only criteria now is eligibility to possess a handgun.  There never was and is not now any provision in HB 271 allowing local communities to opt out.

BTW, we don't call this "constitutional carry" in Montana, but "permitless carry" because the RKBA provision in the Montana Constitution specifically excludes concealed carry from the constitutional RKBA protection.  It's a cultural thing from 1884 when the current RKBA language was formulated for the territorial constitution.  Back then they felt that if you were a manly man you wore your gun outside your clothes where everyone could see it.  Otherwise you were a wimp, sneak and neer-do-well.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Tallpine

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 07:31:26 PM »
So the good news is that the training reqt has been removed.  =)

The bad news is that the Senate has not yet approved the conference committee version  =(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

zxcvbob

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2011, 07:48:35 PM »
From the subject, I thought you meant Janet Reno and I was like "WTF?"
 >:D
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2011, 07:51:06 PM »
Legislature is in adjournment til the 26th.

The bill does not appear to be on the agenda for the first half of the session that day.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 06:05:18 PM »
http://www.kraytonkerns.org/postings/stbaca_power_of_acronym.html

The above is from the blog of the bill's sponsor and is worth a read.

I just sent an email and left a voicemail for the Senate president who is the hold up in this process.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 06:12:07 PM »
That makes sense.

Thanks for the update.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 06:39:03 PM »
I will be in a CCW class with Mr Marbut tomorrow and will ask if he has any inside info.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 06:52:44 PM »
I will be in a CCW class with Mr Marbut tomorrow and will ask if he has any inside info.

Tell him hi from Alaska.  =)
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2011, 09:09:22 AM »
Response to an email I sent to the sponsor:

Quote
Bill,

Senate Majority Leader Esseman has assured me HB271 will be passed by the Senate next week.  They will schedule and pass it at the most opportune PR moment.

Krayton

Tallpine

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 10:59:09 AM »
Well, I hope so ...  I'm going to be royally pissed if they fail to pass it this time  =(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

PTK

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 01:41:56 PM »
If it passes, though.... we'll have permitless carry on par with AK and VT, no? If you're eligible to own a pistol, you're able to conceal it.


Man, if that goes through and then Schweitzer vetos it, I'll cry.
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Tallpine

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2011, 04:11:05 PM »
If it passes, though.... we'll have permitless carry on par with AK and VT, no? If you're eligible to own a pistol, you're able to conceal it.


Man, if that goes through and then Schweitzer vetos it, I'll cry.

You've always been able to conceal it, whether you are eligible or not.

Now, they would just make it legal for decent folks as well as criminals.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

PTK

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 04:17:27 PM »
Able to legally conceal without a permit, then. ;)

Phrasing really is part of the battle. Being that I grew up when I did and where I did, the idea that we can legally own guns is already alien. :)
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2011, 07:41:11 PM »
That was a really good class I was just in with Gary.  I just got back from the post class burger and a beer.  Gary confirmed the above on where 271 is at.  HB 174 (the suppressor one) he thinks can be salvaged.

The FWP really pulled some bullcrap with 174.  They went around to the farmers and ranchers in the districts of the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary committee and told them that this is the "enable poaching bill" and they needed to put pressure on the lawmakers to oppose it.  The new head of the stockgrowers association knows better and is trying to get the word to the land owners.  However, you know how things go with people.  The lawmakers now know the opposition is total BS but are afraid to vote in favor of it because of what was told to their constituents and what going against their will will do to their reelection chances.  The FWP got the first round in on the information battle and it is going to be difficult to overcome that.

PTK

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2011, 09:42:37 PM »
Lame. At least the head of the stockgrowers association has his head on straight about silencers.
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 12:36:25 AM »
a-hem...

Until Montana allows all non-prohibited persons, resident or non-, to carry without a permit in Montana it won't be "as good as" AK/AZ/VT.

You'll be stuck in the second-rate "haters" tier requiring permits for non-residents like Wyoming.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  

Commies ;/

 =D
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

PTK

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 12:52:07 AM »
I should learn to read ALL of the bill. I thought this was for all, not just residents. We're going the way WY went, it seems. :(

I WISH we had AK/VT carry.
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2011, 12:56:24 AM »
I should learn to read ALL of the bill. I thought this was for all, not just residents. We're going the way WY went, it seems. :(

I WISH we had AK/VT carry.

Dude, that's why the good Lord made next year's session.  You already have top shelf reciprocity, improvements (described as simplifying the law) can be made a lot more easily after the anti's panties unbunch from the main bill's passage.

The important thing is when this passes we can use it to beat the Brady's about the head and sunken chest.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 02:15:23 PM »
HB 271 is not on the agenda for today.  It must not be the best day for PR yet...

Tallpine

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 04:44:05 PM »
HB 271 is not on the agenda for today.  It must not be the best day for PR yet...

They were too busy cracking down on the pot heads who were causing so much "trouble"  ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2011, 06:26:10 PM »
They were too busy cracking down on the pot heads who were causing so much "trouble"  ;/

Legislative security can now carry in the capital on their CCW, if the Governor signs.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

PTK

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2011, 06:56:14 PM »
FINALLY. That's one thing that was insanely dumb - not allowing security to have guns in the Capital building....  I can't imagine that Schweitzer will veto it.=|

They were too busy cracking down on the pot heads who were causing so much "trouble"  ;/

This "pot head" is still hoping for the revised CCW legislation. I hate how much media coverage went into all the failed repeals, and yet there's very little about real issues, such as silencers while hunting, permitless carry, etc. Frustrating. :(
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2011, 08:13:49 PM »
271 is not on the schedule for tomorrow morning.

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2011, 02:10:48 PM »
Not on the schedule for this afternoon.

41magsnub

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Re: Montana Carry update, straight from the horse's mouth
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2011, 02:22:23 PM »
Woo hoo..  HB 174 (suppressors) has some movement!  It is out of committee and is going to the floor for the second reading.