The Civil War of 2016

[Ben]

Interesting Op-Ed in the Washington Times. "Tea Party Extremists occupy City Hall" is the gist of an article in the Small Wars Journal. Interesting that they always choose the Tea Party and other right leaning groups versus say, Occupy Wall Street (who actually did occupy stuff) or the anarchist protestors that show up to G8 events with Molotov cocktails.

When one looks at the ratio of peace versus violence at gatherings of the above mentioned groups, the Tea Party people are quite a ways to the "peaceful' side of the scale.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/7/the-civil-war-of-2016/

[charby]

I really don't think any group could get organized enough to actually take over something. Irritate the locals yes, but seize control no.

[longeyes]

The "Civil War" could end up as a refusal to participate.  Just say no to Leviathan.

[slingshot]

Unless the govenment fails due to worldwide events or natural disaster (large meteor collision, super volcano type thing), I don't see a significant "civil war" in the future. 

[TommyGunn]

Unless the govenment fails due to worldwide events or natural disaster (large meteor collision, super volcano type thing), I don't see a significant "civil war" in the future. 

I do.

[RoadKingLarry]

There is some history of even our government using a policy of demonizing the "enemy" to help stir up public opinion against the target. 

[gunsmith]

Interesting Op-Ed in the Washington Times. "Tea Party Extremists occupy City Hall" is the gist of an article in the Small Wars Journal. Interesting that they always choose the Tea Party and other right leaning groups versus say, Occupy Wall Street (who actually did occupy stuff) or the anarchist protestors that show up to G8 events with Molotov cocktails.

When one looks at the ratio of peace versus violence at gatherings of the above mentioned groups, the Tea Party people are quite a ways to the "peaceful' side of the scale.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/7/the-civil-war-of-2016/

Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals.

I think a showdown is coming, hopefully an R admin can slow it down some.
Unless the military has changed much since my short failed career in the 70's, I expect they would follow orders and attack Americans, wasn't it Delta Force that really took out Koresh?
The military would attack US citizens but I'm hoping that after awhile they would realize they are on the wrong side.

[longeyes]

This is not a government that can enforce order on 330 million people.  It is capable of enforcing chaos.  But chaos has a way of permeating everything.  If we have martial law, it probably won't end up very martial or very lawful, just anarchic.

[lee n. field]

The "Civil War" could end up as a refusal to participate.  Just say no to Leviathan.

I doubt they'll let us. 

[longeyes]

Well, no, they won't, that's where the "Sorry, I'd rather not, " comes in...

[SADShooter]

It may seem a fine hair to split, but civil war would require too much cohesion on both sides. Civil disorder flowing from economic decline and moral decay are very real prospects.

[lee n. field]

Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals.

Wannabe anarcho-socialists, with no conception of where stuff actually comes from.

I think a showdown is coming, hopefully an R admin can slow it down some.

In the sense of being in a random stagger, instead of a policies that amount to a deliberate acceleration toward the precipice.  An R. gives a time, but (given our history) won't fix much of anything.

[AZRedhawk44]

The "Civil War" could end up as a refusal to participate.  Just say no to Leviathan.

Indeed. 

I'm coming around to this train of thought.  Work your "slave job" just enough to pay the mortgage and taxes and such, then work a grey/black market outside of the routine tax schedules, bartering value for value.

Met people recently from whom I can obtain farm-grown rabbit, chicken, japanese quail, eggs, goat milk and other food recently.  Paper greenbacks (for now) or silver or barter.  Need to get my garden shaded with a pergola so it will survive here in AZ, and restarted this fall. 

Mount my solar panel array on top of the pergola... one of the things that has held me up on continuing with solar installation in my house has been the fact that I need to replace the shingles soon, so I don't want to mount panels on the roof to make the bid for that job any higher.  A pergola makes for a perfect structure on which to mount a solar array.

[grampster]

The US military would not be able to enforce any kind of martial law except perhaps in a few selected large cities.  Do the math.  Too many armed citizens, too much land mass, not enough military or military equipment.

[RoadKingLarry]

True, but you also have plenty of civilian police that would be only too happy to plant their jack boot on the back of the neck of some unruly citizen.

[AZRedhawk44]

RKL has the right of it.

MIL, if involved at all, will be used on federal lands and federal infrastructure.  Interstates, national forests and parks, airports and maybe a few cities.

It'll be the local police that are sent after "hoarders" and off-gridders and grey marketeers.  It'll take detective work and/or community outreach (i.e. rat out your neighbor) programs to pull it off.  And it won't be full out martial law.  Just increased nanny-statism and manufacturing yet more ways to criminalize self sufficiency:

"We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them...you create a nation of lawbreakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden."

The only defense against the Floyd Ferrises of the world that want what they haven't earned... is the refusal to carry any UN-EARNED guilt that they try to foist upon you.  And the will to stand for your own rights.

[Tallpine]

It'll be the local police that are sent after "hoarders" and off-gridders and grey marketeers.

Around here, it might be the local police that are the "hoarders" and off-gridders and grey marketeers.

 

[longeyes]

Any scenario is unpredictable. But we know this: law-enforcement cannot feed people.

We also know that there're a lot of hackers who would love to disrupt the complex infrastructure of modern techno-America. You can count on them throwing a monkey wrench into things.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

True, but you also have plenty of civilian police that would be only too happy to plant their jack boot on the back of the neck of some unruly citizen.

Nailed it.

[Fitz]

Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals.

I think a showdown is coming, hopefully an R admin can slow it down some.
Unless the military has changed much since my short failed career in the 70's, I expect they would follow orders and attack Americans, wasn't it Delta Force that really took out Koresh?
The military would attack US citizens but I'm hoping that after awhile they would realize they are on the wrong side.

I think you give the military too little credit. Things have changed since you were in

I know, for my part, I gave a lecture every cycle while a drill sergeant on scenarios just as this thread describes ... And about what constitutes an illegal order.

It ended with "and should you ever find yourselves following orders to stomp dissent and *expletive deleted*it on the rights of Americans, you may very well find yourself staring down the barrel of MY rifle, because I'll be on their side"

[Fitz]

I didn't mean that as condescending. Just realized it came off that way.

What I meant was, independent thought is encouraged much more in young soldiers than it was in the 70s, and protecting Americans is given serious weight. And, considering the national guards devotion to their communities, they'd likely side with the locals

[Blakenzy]

The biggest hurdle to resisting the State in any way is the fear and ignorance of your fellow citizens. There are so many people who are way too "naive" to say the least, that believe the Government really holds their best interests at heart... or anything that shows up on TV for that matter.  In the US we don't need a secret police because we have been trained to police ourselves.

[MechAg94]

I would local cops would find it difficult to be jackboots if things got pretty chaotic.  Making enemies out of criminals is one thing, making enemies out of law abiding gun owners is quite another. 

[French G.]

I've met both types in the military. But I think most people who follow the MSM narrative that "the troops" are just poor misguided children being misused by the man in foreign wars would be shocked to see how well the opposition would be equipped in such a scenario. Yes there would be enough follow orders types. But there'd be many more follow orders long enough to get the plane off the ground, turn around and turn HQ into rubble. Some of us in the military still believe in America.

[Ben]

Yes there would be enough follow orders types. But there'd be many more follow orders long enough to get the plane off the ground, turn around and turn HQ into rubble. Some of us in the military still believe in America.

In my job, I work with a pretty heterogeneous mix of military and civilian fed.govs. One thing that always stands out to me is that though we all take an oath to the Constitution, the uniformed personnel are the ones who most embrace that oath in their daily jobs, recognizing that they work for the citizens of the US. I don't know if that's because of the military culture overall or because of training military people get, either via boot camp or the Academies, but they have a basic understanding of, and respect for, the Constitution and what it means that I just don't see with many fed.gov civilians.

In my time in the gov, I've seen quite a few people take the oath upon being hired, and it sickens me how often it's taken as a joke by everyone involved. I've seen people laugh and roll their eyes while they took it, and I've seen people being given the oath over the freakin' telephone. I wish everyone who took a fed.gov job would be required to go through some basic orientation so that they better understood what they were signing on for when they swore that oath.