The Civil War of 2016

[Tallpine]

I wish everyone who took a fed.gov job would be required to go through some basic orientation so that they better understood what they were signing on for when they swore that oath.

Senators, Congresspersons, and Presidents maybe 

 

[Scout26]

In my job, I work with a pretty heterogeneous mix of military and civilian fed.govs. One thing that always stands out to me is that though we all take an oath to the Constitution, the uniformed personnel are the ones who most embrace that oath in their daily jobs, recognizing that they work for the citizens of the US. I don't know if that's because of the military culture overall or because of training military people get, either via boot camp or the Academies, but they have a basic understanding of, and respect for, the Constitution and what it means that I just don't see with many fed.gov civilians.

In my time in the gov, I've seen quite a few people take the oath upon being hired, and it sickens me how often it's taken as a joke by everyone involved. I've seen people laugh and roll their eyes while they took it, and I've seen people being given the oath over the freakin' telephone. I wish everyone who took a fed.gov job would be required to go through some basic orientation so that they better understood what they were signing on for when they swore that oath.

For some, the oath means a bit more when you're willing to back it up with your life.

[SADShooter]

For some, the oath means a bit more when you're willing to back it up with your life.

This is such a fundamental point. In my own interactions, the vast majority of people (civilians) I talk to simply can't comprehend a social disruption of this magnitude, even with the abundant illustrations available (Katrina, Argentina, Mexico, etc.). It can't happen HERE, to ME. In the age of invisible nigh magical infrastructure, systems won't fail and people won't face difficult choices. Therefore, the oath is a joke because it will never be tested. People think I'm a nutter for contemplating such things. As a result, the "What if..." philosophical inquiry only occurs if you're faced with it.

[roo_ster]

True, but you also have plenty of civilian police that would be only too happy to plant their jack boot on the back of the neck of some unruly citizen.

Not too difficult to learn where they live.  Federal troops come from all over.  Local thugs be local.

OTOH, I can't recall a repressive gov't in the last 100 years that had any trouble finding enough personnel to oppress civilians.

[Ron]

OTOH, I can't recall a repressive gov't in the last 100 years that had any trouble finding enough personnel to oppress civilians.

Most everyone wants to be on the winning side, not necessarily the right side.

[Scout26]

Reserve Police Battalion 101 anyone?

[Tallpine]

Most everyone wants to be on the winning side, not necessarily the right side.

Why do I always end up in a Union bar on the 4th of July ?   

[slingshot]

Should an event trigger a cascading series of social events nationwide, yes, things could fall apart pretty rapidly.  I just don't believe it is going to happen.  But I do prepare for disruptions to a certain degree.

The US military would not be able to enforce any kind of martial law except perhaps in a few selected large cities.  Do the math.  Too many armed citizens, too much land mass, not enough military or military equipment.

It comes down to this and that is reality.

How much disruption would it take before the "UN" is calling for a new government here in the USA saying that the current govenment just doesn't work?  The USA  has done it in Lybia, Syria, Irag, Afghanastan, the old Soviet Union, and I believe in some of the smaller African nations.  But I don't believe you will see a fleet of UN vehicles parading around the US ever.  People would accept food, but that wouldn't change anything politically.

If the US falls, most of the world is going to crumble politically including China.  Nobody can save the savior.   That is actually the biggest selling point for martial law in the USA; short term stability in exchange for lost freedoms.

[longeyes]

There are a lot of people in .gov who live in comfortable cocoons.  If real shooting begins on a major scale, the cocoons will be ripped away.  Then we'll see just how committed these bureaucratic types are and how much they are willing to lose to keep "hope" alive.

[Scout26]

Just as reminder, the whole "Arab Spring" began as demonstrations/riots over food prices in Tunisia.


Meanwhile here in the US, record drought is forcing food prices higher.  I doubt there will be famine, but there will be ever more on food stamps.  And .gov assistance is like a drug.  Once you get a taste, you are more willing to "work" harder to get the drug, then to quit and go to work for real.   And Obama just signed an executive order to get rid of the work requirement for welfare.  And ordered the Dept of Agriculture to have the .gov buy up pigs, and cows and chickens, etc. from farmers and ranchers to give to food pantries, welfare agencies, soup kitchens and the like.  Schweinemord* anyone?  



*Do please scroll up and read from the top of page 42. For Liberals, why learn from history when you can make the same mistakes!!!!

[roo_ster]

Just as reminder, the whole "Arab Spring" began as demonstrations/riots over food prices in Tunisia.


Meanwhile here in the US, record drought is forcing food prices higher.  I doubt there will be famine, but there will be ever more on food stamps.  And .gov assistance is like a drug.  Once you get a taste, you are more willing to "work" harder to get the drug, then to quit and go to work for real.   And Obama just signed an executive order to get rid of the work requirement for welfare.  And ordered the Dept of Agriculture to have the .gov buy up pigs, and cows and chickens, etc. from farmers and ranchers to give to food pantries, welfare agencies, soup kitchens and the like.  Schweinemord* anyone?  



*Do please scroll up and read from the top of page 42. For Liberals, why learn from history when you can make the same mistakes!!!!

I spent several hours in line recently to replace a lost driver's license.  Freaking Purgatory on the Plains.  Spending my days in such lines so I could suck on the gov't teat would be horrifying.

[T.O.M.]

I see the dregs of society day in and day out.  As long as they get their checks, can buy their Big Mac and el grande Dorito Burrito and watch American Idol, most of them don't care enough about anything else to get off of the couch and do anything, much less put themselves in harms way to take a stand on an issue.  And actually go to war?  You mean for real, not Call of Duty IV???

[charby]

I spent several hours in line recently to replace a lost driver's license.  Freaking Purgatory on the Plains.  Spending my days in such lines so I could suck on the gov't teat would be horrifying.

[Sergeant Bob]

Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals.

That's sig line material right there.

[MrsSmith]

For some, the oath means a bit more when you're willing to back it up with your life.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that the whole point of an oath or a vow? Otherwise it's just a comment, a statement, with nothing to back it up. Folks don't take words seriously anymore, whether it's a written contract or a verbal oath, it seems to only mean something until something interferes. Like "'Til death do us part." Or "will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Neither of which amount to a hill of beans anymore.

I could see a civil war happening. My guess is it would be between the left and the right of the political fence. Which would make it difficult, at best, since unless you really know someone well, you'd never really know for sure where they might stand. My biggest fears are our government collapsing to socialism or a civil war between the political extremes. In either case, you could expect jackboots on the neck of our liberty and there seem to be enough folks out there right now who willing to trade their freedom for a false sense of security that the rest of us might find ourselves on the wrong end of the stick and our constitution in shreds.

[Jamisjockey]

The average leftist doesn't have the will or know-how to apply force without the power of government.  Sadly, a left vs right civil war would really mean a government vs right.

[roo_ster]

The average leftist doesn't have the will or know-how to apply force without the power of government.  Sadly, a left vs right civil war would really mean a government vs right.

There you go.

[MrsSmith]

They most certainly do know how to apply force. As evidenced by the militarization of every damn branch of the gov from Treasury on down to the EPA (remember Gibson a few months ago?). All they have to do is pass a law and instruct these formerly suit-wearing .gov employees or your local police force to enforce them and we're done.

[HankB]

They most certainly do know how to apply force. As evidenced by the militarization of every damn branch of the gov from Treasury on down to the EPA (remember Gibson a few months ago?).

The National Weather Service is currently seeking to purchase tens of thousands of rounds of .40 caliber 180 grain JHP ammo.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=bfd95987a1ad9a6dfb22bca4a19150cb&_cview=0

The amount isn't particularly large for a government department, but . . . the National Weather Service?

[RoadKingLarry]

They've got to keep those evil global warming climate change deniers in line somehow.

[MrsSmith]

Highly unlikely that a .40 cal pistol is going to stop a hurricane or tornado or blizzard, so how DO they justify this?

[Ben]

The National Weather Service is currently seeking to purchase tens of thousands of rounds of .40 caliber 180 grain JHP ammo.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=bfd95987a1ad9a6dfb22bca4a19150cb&_cview=0

The amount isn't particularly large for a government department, but . . . the National Weather Service?

Looks like National Weather Service is the acquisition vehicle for NOAA Office of Law Enforcement (OLE) which is part of the National Marine Fisheries Service, which has uniformed fed cops and Special Agents that work on fisheries, marine mammal, and pollution violations among other things. That's a whole 'nother thread, and it does make it look fishy when they have Weather Service buy the ammo instead of the Fisheries Service.

[Tallpine]

I could see a civil war happening. My guess is it would be between the left and the right of the political fence.

Nah, the mainstream Left and Right branches of poly-ticks are pretty much on the same side. 

[MrsSmith]

Looks like National Weather Service is the acquisition vehicle for NOAA Office of Law Enforcement (OLE) which is part of the National Marine Fisheries Service, which has uniformed fed cops and Special Agents that work on fisheries, marine mammal, and pollution violations among other things. That's a whole 'nother thread, and it does make it look fishy when they have Weather Service buy the ammo instead of the Fisheries Service.

Why Fisheries needs weapons to enforce laws involving no-fish species, dolphins, spilled oil and the like is highly questionable. In ten+ years of living and working on the water, I've never seen an armed fisheries agent, nor have I seen any armed NOAA personnel, nor have I seen any crimes that would rate holding someone at gunpoint or worse, shooting them. Fisheries does not handle drug movements, illegal alien movements, piracy, or any other crime that typically occurs at sea, so WHY do they need to have weapons??? This is what I mean about formerly suit-wearing government agencies being turned into tactical troops. It's not cost effective at best and dangerous to our freedom at worst. If these folks want to purchase and carry weapons as citizens, that's their business. But there is not one single good reason a Weather Service or NOAA employee needs to be armed to do their jobs.

Nah, the mainstream Left and Right branches of poly-ticks are pretty much on the same side. 

Allow me to phrase it better: those who wish to be free and those who wish to have their gov control their lives.

[Jamisjockey]

They most certainly do know how to apply force. As evidenced by the militarization of every damn branch of the gov from Treasury on down to the EPA (remember Gibson a few months ago?). All they have to do is pass a law and instruct these formerly suit-wearing .gov employees or your local police force to enforce them and we're done.

My point being the leftists themselves will not take up arms, but will instead use proxies.