Author Topic: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited  (Read 32563 times)

roo_ster

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #125 on: October 22, 2013, 04:01:55 PM »
CSD:

Do you read the examples you cite in your posts?

I wonder, because the majority of them consist of agents of the gov't doing wrong, abusing their authority while taking the taxpayers' dollars. (state gov't engineers, teachers, .mil).  Not the sort of thing to bolster your argument, such as it is.

You also might recall a thread we had a while back where a teacher who had sex with their student and fellow teachers rallied to his or her defense.  The general consensus was not charitably disposed toward those teachers.  So, no, it doesn't look like APS lets them off the hook, either.

And then there is the gross category error, conflating ethical & moral lapses with illegal acts as well as not understanding the relationship involved between occupation and questionable action(1).

I am not sure what you are trying to argue, but you have effectively argued "Agents of the state have too much authority, abuse it on a regular basis, and ought to be shorn of much of their authority & held accountable."  Your posts in this thread seem analogous to the Zimmerman prosecution where they were unable to convict Zimmerman of murder, but it sure seems they convicted Martin of assault.



(1) "LEOs who break the law ~! Doctors who work while inebriated."  Something like "LEOs who break the law ~ Doctors who deliberately infect patients" or "LEOs who break the law ~ Nurses who inject patients with poison" would be closer.
Regards,

roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #126 on: October 22, 2013, 04:12:58 PM »
I  was bringing the circle the wagons protect our brothers syndrome in other careers out.
And i believe i won't have to try too hard to find  that within aps
Cavalry arms?
Or any of a dozen other times when the "gun guy " was right in defiance of the evidence.or often in the absence of  any evidence just based on "hes one of us"



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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Strings

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #128 on: October 23, 2013, 11:47:04 PM »
Is there some variation of the "Thin Blue Line" in other professions? Hell yeah

Does that somehow excuse what these officers did? Not in the slightest

Check out "cops writing cops" sometime. That was my eye opener to the Thin Blue Line, and just how bad it is. And I personally know several folks who were good cops, and quit because of it
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #129 on: October 24, 2013, 04:25:50 AM »
Let me see if I understand.

Since there are bad teachers and bad doctors and bad marines that makes it ok for ther to be bad cops.

Gotcha.

Doesn't matter if it's a bad cop or a dangerous doctor. The ones that look the other way or cover for them are just as much filth as the bad apple.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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in this case the most you can hope for is them getting busted for lying. and oddly the cop who didn't shoot has most exposure on that.
the shooter can stick with his belief of what he thought he saw and get administrative action.
these cases are fuel for the school of thought that says one shoot and off the street

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #131 on: October 24, 2013, 05:19:33 PM »
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dallas-officer-shot-mentally-ill-man-fired-20671684

Quote
A Dallas police officer who shot a mentally ill man in a disputed incident caught on tape has been fired and charged with felony aggravated assault, police said Thursday.

Police Chief David Brown apologized for the actions of Officer Cardan Spencer, who had been on administrative leave following the Oct. 14 shooting.

"Officers are not above the law," Brown said at a news conference. "We as a police department are not going to look the other way."

Spencer wrote in a police report that he shot Bobby Gerald Bennett last week after the 52-year-old man lunged at him and another officer with a knife. But video captured by a neighbor's surveillance camera shows Bennett didn't appear to move toward the officers before he was shot and crumpled to the ground.

Brown said two people who had witnessed the shooting from a nearby parked vehicle later came forward and corroborated what could be seen on the video.
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Tallpine

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #132 on: October 24, 2013, 07:13:17 PM »
Quote
Police Chief David Brown apologized for the actions of Officer Cardan Spencer

The chief should have talked to CSD first  :facepalm:

 :P
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #133 on: October 24, 2013, 07:54:35 PM »
Take bets on how it plays out in court?


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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zxcvbob

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #134 on: October 24, 2013, 08:43:45 PM »
Take bets on how it plays out in court?


Mistrial and the prosecutor doesn't reprosecute the case.  (tie-breaker: the jury splits 10-2 to convict)

Another possibility is the prosecutor soft-sells it to the grand jury and they "no-bill", but I think it'll go to trial.
"It's good, though..."

cassandra and sara's daddy

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good possibilities. i would not be surprised if it dies before trial.
how does it work in texas? how/who sets the aggravated assault charge?

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Scout26

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #136 on: October 25, 2013, 12:12:29 AM »
You should fly out there and provide him with legal advice.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #137 on: October 25, 2013, 12:34:53 AM »
Hes got a union lawyer. I say it dies in pretrial. But he could end up with a bench trial. I think he can beat getting fired.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MechAg94

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #138 on: October 25, 2013, 10:08:46 AM »
Hes got a union lawyer. I say it dies in pretrial. But he could end up with a bench trial. I think he can beat getting fired.


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Do you think he can beat getting fired despite being caught lying?  I can understand doubts being cast on a criminal charge.  I guess it depends on how strong and connected that union is. 

I heard someone ask elsewhere about dash cam footage.  I am very curious if that exists or if the camera was turned off.  They are in the middle of the street.  There ought to be nice clear dash cam footage of the entire incident.  
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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if i was still a union shop steward i could win in arbitration.
i would keep focus on "what he believed happened" at the time.
he screwed the pooch but they are protected to some degree for screwing up. the hard part is the lie. your only avenue is to pitch it as he honestly believed the guy made a threatening move.
the shooter can play the previous incident card as well. it places some of the onus back on the dept.

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #140 on: October 25, 2013, 12:58:11 PM »
Hallucinations are a defense, now  ???

 :P
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MechAg94

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if i was still a union shop steward i could win in arbitration.
i would keep focus on "what he believed happened" at the time.
he screwed the pooch but they are protected to some degree for screwing up. the hard part is the lie. your only avenue is to pitch it as he honestly believed the guy made a threatening move.
the shooter can play the previous incident card as well. it places some of the onus back on the dept.

damn phone
For a normal person, that would work for a defense against murder, but not manslaughter.  IMO, if he believes something that isn't true, it does not speak well of his judgement as a police officer.  I guess we shall see.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

cassandra and sara's daddy

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and since we are looking at aggravated assault...and the guy did have a knife.
oh i think hes done as a cop.
i will see if i can dig out that study on cops and shooting. it covered the concepts that in a second shoot don't shoot situation retreads often get out of their training. the ones that were behind the curve in the first shoofing can be too quick in a second event. and some who have second thoughts or regrets about the firstvtime are too slow. both are liabilities. it also discussed whether a cop should be retired after a shooting and why management was not on board with that.

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #143 on: October 25, 2013, 07:02:11 PM »
Cross-examining Lawyer: Mister Cogburn, in your four years as US Marshal, how many men have you shot?

Rooster Cogburn: Shot? Or killed?

Cross-examining Lawyer: Let us restrict it to killed so we may have a manageable figure!

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #144 on: October 25, 2013, 07:13:12 PM »
Not the study i was looking for but might be worth looking at.
http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/117909-Study-reveals-important-truths-hidden-in-the-details-of-officer-involved-shootings/

Don't laugh too much but is it unreasonable to find a paper from 20 years ago on the net.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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tokugawa

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #145 on: October 29, 2013, 07:20:16 PM »
The cop was hired by the Feds. Apparently he will be placed on a grocery store task force, cash deposit investigation team.

Blakenzy

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #146 on: October 31, 2013, 02:19:12 PM »
I too think that police should be automatically retired after a shooting. It stresses that using your firearm isn´t a "ho-hum it´s Tuesday" event. I wonder what effect such a policy would have on the number of "charging" dogs in the community. I do believe suddenly it will be foud that dogs don't quite "charge" as much as they used to.
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Cliffh

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #147 on: November 01, 2013, 11:31:02 PM »
I too think that police should be automatically retired after a shooting. It stresses that using your firearm isn´t a "ho-hum it´s Tuesday" event. I wonder what effect such a policy would have on the number of "charging" dogs in the community. I do believe suddenly it will be foud that dogs don't quite "charge" as much as they used to.

Would that retirement include retirement pay & benefits, as if they'd stayed employed by the PD to the minimum age required for "normal" retirement?

If so, I can see some taking an early retirement. 

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #148 on: November 02, 2013, 07:50:12 AM »
Would that retirement include retirement pay & benefits, as if they'd stayed employed by the PD to the minimum age required for "normal" retirement?

If so, I can see some taking an early retirement. 

it pays better than that  its a job related disability 
and therein lies the rub. admins don't like that cost
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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geronimotwo

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Re: Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man (On Video) Title Edited
« Reply #149 on: November 02, 2013, 07:52:45 AM »
sounds like it would be an incentive to shoot someone. 
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2