Author Topic: Bipartisan concern about deficits  (Read 1250 times)

makattak

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Bipartisan concern about deficits
« on: April 22, 2010, 03:36:26 PM »
Quote
By Dana Milbank

The timing could not have been more apt. On the eve of a titanic partisan clash in the Senate, eggheads of the left and right got together yesterday to warn both parties that they are ignoring the country's most pressing problem: that the United States is turning into Argentina.

While Washington prepared to plunge into a procedural fight over judicial nominees, Stuart Butler, head of domestic policy at the conservative Heritage Foundation, and Isabel Sawhill, director of the left-leaning Brookings Institution's economic studies program, sat down with Comptroller General David M. Walker to bemoan what they jointly called the budget "nightmare."

There were no cameras, not a single microphone, and no evidence of a lawmaker or Obama administration official in the room -- just some hungry congressional staffers and boxes of sandwiches from Corner Bakery. But what the three spoke about will have greater consequences than the current fuss over filibusters and Tom DeLay's travel.

With startling unanimity, they agreed that without some combination of big tax increases and major cuts in Medicare, Social Security and most other spending, the country will fall victim to the huge debt and soaring interest rates that collapsed Argentina's economy and caused riots in its streets a few years ago.

"The only thing the United States is able to do a little after 2040 is pay interest on massive and growing federal debt," Walker said. "The model blows up in the mid-2040s. What does that mean? Argentina."

"All true," Sawhill, a budget official in the Clinton administration, concurred.

"To do nothing," Butler added, "would lead to deficits of the scale we've never seen in this country or any major in industrialized country. We've seen them in Argentina. That's a chilling thought, but it would mean that."

Each of the three had a separate slide show, but the numbers and forecasts were interchangeable.

Walker put U.S. debt and obligations at $45 trillion in current dollars -- almost as much as the total net worth of all Americans, or $150,000 per person. Balancing the budget in 2040, he said, could require cutting total federal spending as much as 60 percent or raising taxes to 2 1/2 times today's levels.

Butler pointed out that without changes to Social Security and Medicare, in 25 years either a quarter of discretionary spending would need to be cut or U.S. tax rates would have to approach European levels. Putting it slightly differently, Sawhill posed a choice of 10 percent cuts in spending and much larger cuts in Social Security and Medicare, or a 40 percent increase in government spending relative to the size of the economy, and equivalent tax increases.

The unity of the bespectacled presenters was impressive -- and it made their conclusion all the more depressing. As Ron Haskins, a former Bush White House official and current Brookings scholar, said when introducing the thinkers: "If Heritage and Brookings agree on something, there must be something to it."

Yet that is not how leaders of either party talk. Former Treasury secretary Paul H. O'Neill recounted how Vice President Cheney told him that "deficits don't matter." President Bush projects deficit reductions in the coming few years but ignores projections that show them exploding after that. And Democrats, fighting Bush's call for cutting Social Security benefits through indexing changes, are suggesting that only tinkering with the program is indicated.

The congressional staffers, accustomed to sitting on opposite sides of the room in such events, seemed flummoxed by yesterday's unusual session in the Rayburn House Office Building. One questioner suggested Republicans are to blame for multiple tax cuts; another implied the problem is a Democratic appetite for spending. The bipartisan panel would not be goaded. "I'm willing to talk about taxes if you're willing to talk about entitlements," Butler offered.

Not surprisingly, the Heritage and Brookings crowds don't agree on an exact solution to the budget problem, but they seem to accept that, as Sawhill put it, "you can't do it with either spending or taxes. Eventually, you're going to need a mix of the two." Butler wants taxes, now at 17 percent of GDP, not to exceed 20 percent. Sawhill prefers 24 or 25 percent.

But such haggling seems premature when both parties still deny the problem. "I don't think we're there yet," Walker said. "The American people have to understand where we are and where we're headed."

And where is that? "No republic in the history of the world lasted more than 300 years," Walker said. "Eventually, the crunch comes."

He wasn't talking about filibusters.


Alright, confession time:

I changed a couple words in the article. Specifically, I changed "Bush administration" to "Obama administration" and reworded the nominee fight to match today.

Why? This was written in 2005.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051701238.html

We've been ignoring our Argentinification for many years. Worse, actually, we've not only ignored it, we've made it worse.

Our current debt obligation is estimated to be nearly $80 trillion. Let me write that out:

80,000,000,000,000. That's an 8 with 13 zeroes following it.

That's $270,000 for every man, woman, and child in the United States.

What's the response from our current administration? Oh right, a VAT.

That'll fix easily get $270,000 from every man woman and child. I mean this is obviously a revenue problem, right?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

alex_trebek

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Re: Bipartisan concern about deficits
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2010, 05:05:35 PM »
Not to steal anyone's thunder, but I like to specify these astronomical (literally) numbers in unusual ways. I hope that it gets people who don't do math thinking in a different way.

The vast majority of APS probably has an idea how big of a number this is, I am sharing so that you may do so with others IRL.

I also don't intend to be insensitive to any religious beliefs.

So here it goes:

8E13 seconds ago this species was around:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_garhi

8E13 hours ago there is nothing relevant to us to report. Our solar system hadn't formed yet, and won't for another 4.5ish billion years (which is the theoretical age of the earth).

You only need to go to the days level, another level of measurement and you have gone before any known existence.

When one really thinks about it, they almost have to wonder how the heck that number can be true.

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: Bipartisan concern about deficits
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2010, 05:17:33 PM »
Umm... What did we buy with our 80T?

lupinus

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Re: Bipartisan concern about deficits
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2010, 05:23:26 PM »
Umm... What did we buy with our 80T?
A new entrenched voters class?
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Bipartisan concern about deficits
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2010, 10:00:45 PM »
Umm... What did we buy with our 80T?
The destruction of America.

I do believe that was the goal among those currently in power.