Author Topic: Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house  (Read 2541 times)

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I hope to build a new house in 2-3 year's time and am having a hard time calculating what it might cost me.

At this point, I'm still deep in research mode, so I don't feel ready to go to a contractor and ask for a quote.

Also, my requirements aren't going to be standard. I want a great house structure. I'm willing to wait for a great interior. So, if I can get the house built for what I can afford, I'm willing to work with very basic interior stuff for a few years. This is hopefully going to be the house I live in for the balance of my life and I have plenty of time to frou-frou it up.

So far my wish list:

Minimum of 5 acres.
Insulated concrete forms.
Lower story partially earth-bermed (North side completely covered, west mostly done, ideally some of the east..depending on the property and final design.
1.5 story, but very few angles or corners.
Geo thermal heat pump.
Passive solar (at a minimum.)
Ideally, the house will be ~1,500 sq. ft.

So...

1.) How do I estimate what this will cost? I know it depends on local stuff a lot, but is there some kind of rule of thumb I'm missing? I found one calculator online that suggested $197,000 for the house..without land. Bah. No way. Some of the features (concrete/GTHP) add a bit to the cost, but not that much.

2.)Any other suggestions on creating an energy efficient but non-butt ugly house? Any warnings from misadventures on your own houses that can be solved by planning now?

280plus

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2006, 03:00:09 AM »
I'll think on it for a while but the one thing that comes to mind right now is don't expect it to be finished when they say it will be. I've seen too many people sell their existing home and move into an apt thinking they'd only be there a few months and ending up there over a year. It can really kill the whole budget.

See if you can get some ideas of cost per square foot from some local contractors. What does it cost for a conventional house per sq ft?
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garyk/nm

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2006, 05:05:51 AM »
Average building costs are running $80-120/sq.ft depending on area. Find out what your local average is and add 25% for custom features and a safety margin.  Site selection sounds like your biggest factor. What you are describing is a sloped parcel with a south-facing solar exposure.
There are lots of solar options and the cost is just starting to become reasonable (7 year break-even vs 10-15 year).  The neat thing about solar (photovoltaic) is that you can actually make money on it by selling your excess production back to your local utility co.
Sounds like an interesting plan. Keep us posted on the gory details. Smiley

Art Eatman

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2006, 10:11:29 AM »
Seems to me sevetral questions are in order:

How important is the appearance of the house?  That is, do you want to walk out front and say, "Hey, I have a really neat house!"?  Or are things like low operating costs more important (insualtion and such)?

"No corners" is far more costly than squared off rooms and multiples of four feet in room dimensions or exterior dimensions.

If this is to be "for the rest of your life", what will happen thereafter (or do you care?) insofar as inheritors and their likes/dislikes or views as to estate values.  Example:  I built my house at age 60.  My son won't ever live here.  I didn't care if the house decayed to major maintenance problems in some 30 years.  The house, then, is a minor portion of my total estate in that I used a very simple layout and did most of the work myself.

The cost of passive solar will be a function of lifestyle and appliances.  Gas or electric stove?  Gas or electric water heater?  Much use of power tools?  If your only major load is a refrigerator, the investment cost will be far less than with a lot of electric appliances.  Next factor is the climate-control system.

What part of the country?  A five-acre tract could vary from a very few thousand, here in Terlingua, to $5,000 per acre or more in south Georgia or in Florida (staying with areas of which I have first-hand knowledge).

Water supply and septic system requirements are also major cost items, if the first requires a well and the latter is subject to governmental regulations.

Art
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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2006, 10:30:33 AM »
Well, according to the test, I'm going to live at least 50 more years, so its gotta hold up for that. Smiley

Yeah, square rooms is what I meant..not a lot of angles and do-hickeys.

Plain is fine. I'd like to do brick exterior, because I like it, and I'd plant lots of things, but square or rectangular is fine. Doesn't have to have a page in Better Homes and Gardens.

I'm figuring $5k per acre for land..might get some for less, but I'm hoping for a good hill.

As far as power requirements? I don't expect to be able to use all alternative energy. But I want to have the option of running the basics off-grid if necessary. That would be the fridge and the heat pump at a minimum.

I was figuring $10k for well plus septic, although I think I could get them for less (depending on the piece of land and perking and water levels, etc.)

280plus

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2006, 11:20:54 AM »
We just paid $25K for a septic system. I t was a special case though. Around here the avg is ~ $18K.

It will take a LOT of juice to start the heat pump compressor.
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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2006, 11:25:38 AM »
Dang! A couple thousand usually here..a little more if you have to do a raised one.

How much to start the heat pump? If necessary, I can go with a generator, but its not all that unusual to have week long power outages in the more rural parts of my county and I want to be able to stay comfy regardless. Maybe I'll just have to depend on the woodstove.

280plus

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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2006, 11:38:08 AM »
Actually, I'm not sure how much to start the heat pump but I know it means a BIG generator. I checked into this recently but can't remember the figures. Running it doesn't take much but you'd need something ~four times as big to start it than you would need to run it IIRC.

Yea, ours was a raised septic. Most of that $25k was for fill and washed sand. Put a real dent in my gun money. Sad
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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2006, 12:09:52 PM »
That would put a real dent in my house budget!

280plus

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2006, 12:23:04 PM »
I'm so broke right now I can't pay attention!  Cheesy

Actually, I'm just a little frustrated because I was really starting to put a dent in the debt I hadincurred going into business. Now I'm back where I started. Maybe worse, I'm too scared to figure it out! :barf:

Plan carefully, make sure you know what you'll need for money before you jump in there.
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280plus

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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2006, 12:31:08 PM »
I was just talking to someone last night about DC houses. You set up solar panels which provide DC power and wire the house for DC lights and whatever other creature comforts there are that will run on DC. You get some big batteries that will hold the house for a few days without sun The solar panels charge the batteries. It's much cheaper than trying to convert DC to AC to power a conventionally wired house. You'd still have to run some minimal AC wiring though.

Yea, if I were you I'd have a wood or coal stove. You saw those soapstone stoves a while back, right? That's the way to go there.

Cheesy
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Otherguy Overby

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 02:29:26 PM »
1.  Add 10 to 15 percent to your construction costs to pay for higher oil prices.  Oil is used to make many of the products used in construction and ALL the transportation.

2.  If you buy your lot now and wait 5 years to build, it may no longer satisfy septic requirements.  IOW, put the well and septic in right after you buy the land.

3.  15-20k for a geothermal heat pump/w AC wouldn't be out of line.

4.  Solar houses generally need 125/250 AC wiring also.  Wanna do solar, expect to spend 7.5-12.5k for panels, inverter and sufficient batteries.   This is for a minimal system.  

5.  Don't expect to run heating and cooling from your solar system and/or batteries.  

6.  A good backup generator with transfer switch probably won't be much less than $7K.  You MUST HAVE a transfer switch.  Anything less than 12.5 KW (50 amp at 250v) probably shouldn't be considered.  Also, the generator must be able to put out 250 volts, some don't.

Lastly, you've got to consider that you're commited to spending (above requirements) maybe 45-55k without considering putting in a driveway/road, the cost of running power to the house and other stuff.

Buiilding your own house is a huge money pit for the unwary.   BTW, unless you are independently wealthy, always build for resale.  You might have to move or sell sometime in the future.

Oh, and at every step you are subject to being screwed financially by someone.
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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 03:51:07 PM »
Heh..sounds like life in a nutshell, right there? Smiley

I think I gave the wrong impression. My intention is not to live completely via solar or other alternative energy methods. I want the house to be as energy efficient as possible and Iwant to have the means to keep myself warm and cozy during extended power outages. I want to be able to live in the house cheaply when I'm old. I want to impact the environment as little as I can and still stay cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

I'm hoping there are some big breaks in fuel cells in the next several years, too. Smiley

What about concrete, with insulated forms? Construction is reportedly 5% higher than conventional wood, but its hard to knock it down, and its supposed to be efficient. I'd want to face the outside of the front with brick, I think. Is there another construction material that I should consider that maybe I haven't looked at? I'm going to talk to someone I konw this week who does the concrete work and get a better feel for costs, etc. but am still open on this one.

Another thing I need to look at is general contracting. Need to figure out what the limits are on those contracts. For instance, I know someone who can do the electrical work and excavation, and flooring installation, and would give me great deals on it. I can get very good discounts on things like cupboards and plumbing, etc. and I can do some of the work myself, especially the finish type things. Need to make sure I can work it out to use these sources, and still have a general contractor. I'm not knowledgable enough to do the job without one.

Well and septic systems are quite a lot below what any of you suggested, at least in this area. I've paid for both and the costs were significantly lower.

Anyway, I'll be working on this for a couple of years and I'm sure you'll all be glad when I eventually just do it and you can quit listening to it.

280plus

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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 03:55:58 PM »
Quote
Well and septic systems are quite a lot below what any of you suggested, at least in this area
See, if I'd known that I would have bought the system there and then moved it here. Sad

Cheesy
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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 04:00:59 PM »
Smiley

Maybe I could send you one. Smiley

A lot of time they have to be raised, though. But a friend had to replace his a few years ago and I think it was somewhere around 4k to do it.

280plus

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2006, 04:02:25 PM »
Stop, you're going to make me cry!

Sad

LOL...
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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2006, 04:24:28 PM »
http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/mod02/01500606.html

this says $2-4k, which seems to be typical here.

http://www.michiganacreage.com/wwwroot/m/michiganacreage/tips.cfm#perk

Ah, this says up to $20k for an engineered field. Not requiring one would be a requisite for my land.

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2006, 08:16:50 PM »
The trick is finding the right contractor. A lot of them will charge a lot extra for work that is in anyway different than what they are used to. the insulated foam blocks for a house are a prime example, so talk to the form supplier, they may have a list of contractors that are experienced with them.  A huge proportion of the cost of our modern day houses is in the interior finish. so a lot of houses get built as cheap as possible on the structure, and glitzed up on the inside.  I have seen a lot of Mcmansions that were junk.
  The land is the single most important consideration. You can build anything you can afford but good land is hard to find. We as a society have been dramaticly increasing the cost of worthless land, suitable only for gazing out at the view, while neglecting the traditional values of water, pasture, cropland, good drainage, and defensibility. It is nice to have a fairly secure border.
  This is an immensely creative job and you can have a lot of fun. My wife and I built our house (as in poured the concrete, drove the nails, etc.) while we were both working full time. It wore us out. I reccomend a contractor for all the grunt work, and if you want to assist, do it at the end on finish work. There is only so much effort in a person!
 
.

Art Eatman

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2006, 07:43:54 AM »
My house is stick-frame and "Ruf-Tex" panelling.  I went with R-30 above the ceiling.  R-19 on the west and north walls; R-13 on the east and south.  All the windows are double-paned.

It was 32 degrees at daylight this morning.  My only heat during the night was one burner on the kitchen stove.  Quite comfortable, although a wee bit on the cool side.  When it's really cold, I use two burners.  

IOW, think insulation.  A buddy of mine built his house with 2x8 studs, and R-30 all the way around.  Heat it with a match, cool it with an ice cube.

here in the desert, I cool with an evaporative cooler.  I can hold a delta-T of some 30 degrees on a hot day.  With no compressor to run, the electricity cost is about 25% of a conventional A/C.

Depending where you are as to soils and the permeability, a complete septic system shouldn't cost all that much.  A 500-gallon tank, 50 feet of outfall line (roughly).  Two hours backhoe time to dig, and one hour to cover with a truckload of gravel.  I've built a half-dozen of them around here in Terlingua plus two for me.

The big-cost item in solar is the rectifier.  A refrigerator runs on about 8 amps, but the startup load is about 20.  If you're gonna deal with outahges, a 2500-watt generator works.  Just don't go opening the refrigerator with any regularity and it's "good to go".  Here, outages up to 40 hours aren't uncommon.  

I don't run the generator full-time, although I could.   But that's why I have a propane stove and water heater.  I have one water cistern high enough above the house that I can juggle valves and have 20psi from gravity.

Art
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peteinct

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2006, 06:29:45 AM »
Hi, I'm no contractor just a veteran remodeller. I feel that if you try anything nonstandard for your area you will raise your costs and build times. It also makes getting your permits a big P.I.A. because the inspectors aren't used to seeing what you are doing. Where I live everything is stick built. If you are worried about R values you can make the walls thicker using 2x6 or 2x8 rather than 2x4 lumber. I think you can lower the cost of setting up a generator by having the electricians wire in a transfer switch when they set up the house wiring. I have an engineered septic system and it is a big pain. I would look hard for property that didn't need it.
pete

Brad Johnson

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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2006, 07:41:33 AM »
Quote
I want the house to be as energy efficient as possible and Iwant to have the means to keep myself warm and cozy during extended power outages. I want to be able to live in the house cheaply when I'm old. I want to impact the environment as little as I can and still stay cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

......

What about concrete, with insulated forms? Construction is reportedly 5% higher than conventional wood, but its hard to knock it down, and its supposed to be efficient. I'd want to face the outside of the front with brick, I think. Is there another construction material that I should consider that maybe I haven't looked at? I'm going to talk to someone I konw this week who does the concrete work and get a better feel for costs, etc. but am still open on this one.
Two words - "Thermal mass". Your ICF idea is a good one. The concrete provides mass, which is resistant to temperature variations. The foam insulation on the panels provides an energy barrier which takes this mass and keeps it even more thermally stable. There are forms for wall thicknesses (excluding the foam cladding) from 3" to over 6". The thicker the wall, the more mass. The more mass, the more thermally stable the interior will be.

60% of the heat migration in most modern homes is through the ceiling. In an ICF home is it more like 80%. You will want a minimum of 12-14" of blown-in insulation. More preferable would be expanding foam. It's higher initially, but 6" of expanding foam on both the ceiling joists and roof will turn your house into a big thermal pocket and will seal the home. So well, in fact, that you will want to consider an air exchanger to allow for fresh air.

In addition to being highly energy efficient, the ICF and expanding foam applications are usually recognized as having substantial liability reduction benefits for fire retardance, security, and weather resistance. Check with your insurer, but I bet you will receive a substantial reduction in insurance premiums. Add a steel or other type of impact-resistant roof for further premium reductions, as well as reductions in long-term maintenance costs. If you are lucky you might be able to partner with your insurer to use your house as a prototype or 'example' home for your area.


Quote
I'm hoping there are some big breaks in fuel cells in the next several years, too.
I wouldn't worry about fuel cells, solar, or other expensive exotics right now. The money required to implement exotic technologies can be more effectively used in making the house more efficient and reduce potential long-term maintenance costs.

Think in terms of stand-by energy storage. In this case, propane/butane in a 300-500 gallon tank. You can heat and cook with it, and in an emergency you can get a propane-fueled refridgerator for cold food storage. You can also use it as emergency heat by providing a lines in the home where you can hook up some direct-vent catalytic heaters. I have to disagree with Art here - in a well-sealed home do NOT use your stove as a heat source unless you enjoy carbon monoxide poisoning!! Get something designed as a direct-vent unit.

Heat pumps are good if you have electricity, but I would put some serious thought into adding a "parlor stove" located centrally in the home. Nominally it would be a conversation piece and design element that would provide some supplemental heat and coziness. However, it could also function as an emergency heat source if A) the electricity fails and B) you run out of propane. If your home is efficient enough it could potentially serve as the full-time primary heat source, depending on how the cost of wood compares to the cost of other heat sources.

Also, consider design elements that take advantage of your location. If you can, design in many large south-facing windows with an overhang that provides shade in summer but allows the sun to shine through the windows in winter. The proper overhang depth is dependent on your latitude. Thermally efficient low-E windows make this less of an issue than has been previously, but you can still gather an amazing amount of heat by putting dark-colored area rugs on the floor wherever the sun shines. Heck, you could even use black towels from the dollar store, I guess. In other words, you have another heat source that doesn't cost anything other than the removeable dark floor covering of choice.

Quote
Another thing I need to look at is general contracting. Need to figure out what the limits are on those contracts. For instance, I know someone who can do the electrical work and excavation, and flooring installation, and would give me great deals on it. I can get very good discounts on things like cupboards and plumbing, etc. and I can do some of the work myself, especially the finish type things. Need to make sure I can work it out to use these sources, and still have a general contractor. I'm not knowledgable enough to do the job without one.

Well and septic systems are quite a lot below what any of you suggested, at least in this area. I've paid for both and the costs were significantly lower.

Anyway, I'll be working on this for a couple of years and I'm sure you'll all be glad when I eventually just do it and you can quit listening to it.
You have the luxury of time. Start talking to contractors now. Do you have a college or university in your area with an architorture department? Propose this to them as a project and see if you can get some design work out of them. You might even research federal grants to see if you qualify under energy efficiency, alternate construction types, or gender.

Hope this helps!

Brad
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Estimating home building costs and general babble about my dream house
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2006, 03:03:25 PM »
Good advice. No schools nearby, but now that I think about it, one of my son's friends is going to school for architecture. Maybe I'll talk to him over Spring break.

I've been researching tax breaks, etc. somewhat. Planning to do more of that. There's also a group here in Michigan that offers a lot of information on alternative energy and offers home tours, etc.

I'm also going to have to look at financing for this. Especially since I'm looking for a good shell, but don't know what the inside will look like, and because the whole thing might be a very "niche-y" kind of house..and I'd need to get a construction loan, I don't know how much love the bank will give me. I'll need to research to make sure I can get a good rate.