Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: K Frame on January 08, 2009, 12:01:56 PM
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Just off the Reuters news wire.
I wonder how it will affect me given that I'm single and no kids?
FAIRFAX, Virginia (Reuters) – President-elect Barack Obama said on Thursday he would offer working families a $1,000 tax cut and improve energy efficiency in millions of American homes in order to create jobs and stimulate the economy.
"To get people spending again, 95 percent of working families will receive a $1,000 tax cut -- the first stage of a middle-class tax cut that I promised during the campaign and will include in our next budget," he said in a speech outside Washington.
He said his economic recovery plan would extend jobless aid and healthcare coverage for the unemployed and include proposals to double production of alternative energy in the next three years and improve energy efficiency for millions of homes.
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I wonder how it will affect me given that I'm single and no kids?
Continue to pull your cart. I'll be right there next to you pulling mine.
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Claim Mason on your tax form. I imagine he eats as much as a seven year old boy.
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I should claim my two maus as dependents, as a couple of "Egyptian girls", maybe.
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"Continue to pull your cart. I'll be right there next to you pulling mine."
I have this strange urge to sing Old Man River...
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Considering I got zip when Bush was handing out $600 stimulus checks, I'm expected the same this time around. :mad:
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Considering I got zip when Bush was handing out $600 stimulus checks, I'm expected the same this time around. :mad:
Ditto.
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As the guy who is going to pay for his plan, I'd like to voice my opposition to this "plan". =D
Give the sluggards more money? How about getting out of my way and let me put people to work and buy stuff for my business?
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This country is supposedly about individual rights but more and more we hear about the needs and rights of "working families." That is nothing but code for expanding welfare monies to the "underclass" at the expense of the stupid singles who put people like Obama and Clinton into power in the first place.
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As the guy who is going to pay for his plan, I'd like to voice my opposition to this "plan".
The plan is socialism. Welcome to the new, larger, slightly more prosperous East Germany, comrade.
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To finally spark the creation of a clean energy economy, we will double the production of
alternative energy in the next three years. We will modernize more than 75% of federal
buildings and improve the energy efficiency of two million American homes, saving
consumers and taxpayers billions on our energy bills. In the process, we will put
Americans to work in new jobs that pay well and can’t be outsourced – jobs building
solar panels and wind turbines; constructing fuel-efficient cars and buildings; and
developing the new energy technologies that will lead to even more jobs, more savings,
and a cleaner, safer planet in the bargain.
NO! NUCLEAR, YOU USELESS EMPTY SUIT! NUUUUUCLLLLLEEEAR!
Yeah, we'll really get use out of SOLAR PANELS when they're covered with SNOW here. We have a Westinghouse 1400MW reactor, and would have had two of them if it wasn't for the lawsuit-flinging green terrorists!
God DAMN it. :mad:
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How are they going to "improve energy efficiency" in a couple million homes? Either ban something or pay people to use an alternative. Stupid either way.
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In the process, we will put Americans to work in new jobs that pay well and can’t be outsourced – jobs building
solar panels and wind turbines; constructing fuel-efficient cars and buildings; and
developing the new energy technologies that will lead to even more jobs, more savings,
and a cleaner, safer planet in the bargain.
Is it just me or do I only see one job in that list that can't or would be very difficult to outsource?
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Is it just me or do I only see one job in that list that can't or would be very difficult to outsource?
I thought that too. These things are produced overseas now, why would the future be different? Just another empty promise that sounds good on paper.
NO! NUCLEAR, YOU USELESS EMPTY SUIT! NUUUUUCLLLLLEEEAR!
Yeah, we'll really get use out of SOLAR PANELS when they're covered with SNOW here. We have a Westinghouse 1400MW reactor, and would have had two of them if it wasn't for the lawsuit-flinging green terrorists!
God DAMN it. :mad:
I hear ya. I keep hearing about the NIMBY people... Personally, I'd LOVE to have a reactor put in my backyard. Heck, I wouldn't even charge them for the land!
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I hear ya. I keep hearing about the NIMBY people... Personally, I'd LOVE to have a reactor put in my backyard. Heck, I wouldn't even charge them for the land!
Here's ours. That's just so not green!
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnepba.org%2Fimages%2Fseabrook.jpg&hash=36819f6673214977a2701deef9792e447fc7924f)
Wait...
The Owascoag Nature Trail at Seabrook's Science & Nature Center was established in 1978 as an interpretive environmental education walk. The three-quarter-mile boardwalk allows visitors to enjoy the habitat of a salt marsh and the surrounding woodlands.
The trail's name, Owascoag (oh-ask-oh-wog), comes from the Native Americans who lived in this area many hundreds of years ago and means "land of many grasses." The habitats are diverse, but each area is perfectly interwoven with the next to form a balance of resources for wildlife.
All while there's 1400MW being generated in silence with not a single emission.
Why, what is that right next to the containment dome?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fpl.com%2Fenvironment%2Fnuclear%2Fimages%2Fseabrook_nature_trail-2.gif&hash=aa9660c011f299f633be15ca14120845aeb7eaf3)
Is that an osprey nest? Yes it is! Well, it seems like it's...not a big deal? And that unlike wind turbines, it doesn't kill birds, and unlike solar, it doesn't take up a vast area with ugly arrays, displacing wildlife. How about that.
Greenie tards...
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Considering I got zip when Bush was handing out $600 stimulus checks, I'm expected the same this time around. :mad:
Ditto Mabs' ditto.
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Here's ours. That's just so not green!
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnepba.org%2Fimages%2Fseabrook.jpg&hash=36819f6673214977a2701deef9792e447fc7924f)
It looks more like a concrete gray. Maybe if nuke plants were gussied up a bit to look more stylish? Would they be more acceptable to the lefties then? Lefties are, after all, very much into being stylish.
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I've been all for nuclear power after I came to understand that it has been made so much safer than in the past AND they most likely won't be hiring idjits who will allow another 3 Mile Island to happen.
Truth is that I believe nuke power is well in control with modern 'puters.
Too bad these leftist hippie greenie morons don't actually understand science.
Hell, they don't understand the difference between AC and DC EMF to start with...and that was passed out in elementary school science class.
Morons.
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Too bad these leftist hippie greenie morons don't actually understand science.
No, but they did see "The China Syndrome" once.
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Paint the "nucular" power plants green. Voila!! Green Power.
MW: Both of the pics you posted ought to be on the front page of every major newspaper in the country with the headline...WHY NOT MORE OF THESE, MR. PRESIDENT?
Maybe 50 years ago they would have done so. Not now.
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What is wrong with solar panels in the desert?
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All while there's 1400MW being generated in silence with not a single emission.
Its great til it melts down Chernobyl style.
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What is wrong with solar panels in the desert?
Nothing. Well, I'm sure that the environmentalists would get bent out of shape. Aside from that, how much electricity do they produce per acre? And how efficient is transferring that power to urban areas where it's needed?
As I read more about the proposed tax cut and stimulus plan, the more I see green projects that are wonderfully PC and will satisfy many liberal interest groups, but do little to help the economy.
If it's possible to spend our way out of a deep recession (an idea I question), then the primary focus should be on where the money would do the most possible good. I don't want to hear about green, or carbon footprints, or renewable energy, or any other liberal bullshit.
I also don't want to hear about the government creating jobs. Government does not create jobs except for bureaucracies, the cost of which is a net job-killer. At its best, government creates an environment favorable for job creation.
Rather than give a few bucks to people who don't pay taxes, Obama & Co. should take the $1 trillion and say, "ok, we're going to use this $1 trillion as general revenues to keep the government running while we collect no taxes. We're going to eliminate capital gains taxes, and suspend income taxes until the economy is humming again."
Obama should also put a hold on the cap and trade policies, so that businesses will not have extra burdens placed upon them at the worst possible time.
IOW, if they're serious about getting the economy back on track, they should remove every obstacle that keeps businesses from spending money and investors from investing. I'm sure the environment can wait a few years.
Or maybe the environmentalists would prefer that we live in huts like Obama's uncle.
Its great til it melts down Chernobyl style.
So your knowledge of nuclear technology comes from seeing "The China Syndrome," too, eh?
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What is wrong with solar panels in the desert?
There are vast areas of Nevada that could hold miles of solar arrays. The problem is that solar does not produce nearly as much as nuke does. But then there is this....
http://nanosolar.com/
The company has some real potential.
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Its great til it melts down Chernobyl style.
I am sorry, it is not an antiquated Soviet graphite moderated design with no containment shell, run by incompetent drunks. It is a Westinghouse pressurized water reactor that uses the Atlantic ocean for cooling, and came online in 1990 with zero safety faults in eighteen years of running at 98% capacity with one upgrade for increased output.
Thank you for demonstrating profound ignorance after eight posts. Might your next be something about ARs being dangerous machine guns?
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What is wrong with solar panels in the desert?
They cost a lot to maintain the steering motors and other equipment, and they're not very efficient.
CA shut down a perfectly good 900MW reactor and built a solar array there instead. Massive array. At peak sunlight, it produces...4MW.
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And there is the pre-installation environmental damage from solar cell and companion equipment mining and manufacturing processes. Solar panels ain't made from rose petals and morning dew.
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And there is the pre-installation environmental damage from solar cell and companion equipment mining and manufacturing processes. Solar panels ain't made from rose petals and morning dew.
Nuclear waste is a tad worse than a little bit of HF. Not that I'd want to play in either. Maned you have a good point, when you are replacing nuclear plants with solar. My point though is that solar is a great supplemental. It is always there, and it has no pollution except at the manufacturing level. Same reason why wind is so nice, it might be expensive, but you don't need anything else, just wind. These are good supplements to nuclear power, which I am definitely in favor of.
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Nuclear waste is a tad worse than a little bit of HF. Not that I'd want to play in either. Maned you have a good point, when you are replacing nuclear plants with solar. My point though is that solar is a great supplemental. It is always there, and it has no pollution except at the manufacturing level. Same reason why wind is so nice, it might be expensive, but you don't need anything else, just wind. These are good supplements to nuclear power, which I am definitely in favor of.
You need constant maintenance on the steering motors of solar arrays. You need to replace relays and switching gear, which fails as it does on any large power handling system.
Turbines need a LOT of maintenance, they need someone to be paid to climb up and do lubrication, they need cranes to replace bearings, they need checks on the braking gear. And they sometimes catch fire, or fail even more spectacularly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o) Massive Vestas turbine brake failure and spectacular structural failure...wouldn't want to be ANYWHERE near that.
Turbines on fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKkTUY2slYQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKkTUY2slYQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N4HQv-UyUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N4HQv-UyUo)
That all costs money. There is no free power.
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Nuclear waste is a tad worse than a little bit of HF
When you look at energy output per unit, and given new technologies for waste reuse and disposal, not all that bad, perhaps better.
There isn't anything wrong with solar as a supplement for a large grid, or as a primary power source for individual homes or small settlements.
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They cost a lot to maintain the steering motors and other equipment, and they're not very efficient.
Solar panels are also expensive to maintain and dangerous to the workers. They also inflict damage to the environment that the Greenies never want to talk about, just like wind farms.
When IDNR started noticing dead raptors around the Benton County windmills, the Greenies claimed that they were "planted" and windmills don't really kill birds. ;/
Solar panels are just like wind mills--tax-payer funded tributes to Lefties to absolve themselves of their White Guilt and they care not how much of your tax money it takes so they can feel smug about themselves.
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As a solar panel owner and somebody working to go completely off-grid myself, I don't particularly like how this thread is going, especially the slant imparted by the post prior to this one.
Discuss the merits, but let's leave the White Guilt bit out, ok? That's damned near as bad as the Paulistas/wookie suits and all the other barking moonbat/tinfoil hattery.
Besides, gas is cheap again. We don't need to worry about alternative energy sources, I've got that on good advice. ;)
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I don't understand why people attack solar panels so much, really I don't. I mean, I understand the leftists want to shove them down your throat, but really - as Gewehr98 has pointed out, they're excellent for a private person using them to power his house.
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I've been all for nuclear power after I came to understand that it has been made so much safer than in the past AND they most likely won't be hiring idjits who will allow another 3 Mile Island to happen.
Three Mile Island was caused by the operating company not paying to fix stuff and did not provide as much training as should have been required. The NRC was partly to blame for not smacking Met Ed prior to the incident. But, as incidents go, it was pretty friggin minor. As far as anyone can determine, no one died, got cancer from, or had even a shortened lifespan from the TMI-2 reactor incident. These days, you can walk through the area where the TMI-2 reactor was located without any special gear. Folks apparently are still under the belief that was TMI-2 reactor incident was a mini Chernobyl, or even had the potential to become a mini Chernobyl. I lived literally within walking distance of TMI for 10 years and I was never worried. Seems the less a person actually knows about nuclear power, the more opposed to it they are. Everyone within spitting distance of TMI loved it, because the power was so cheap, it kept taxes low and it was significantly more safe than the coal plant down the river.
Nuclear power is the safest, cheapest and cleanest form of energy production we have or will have until fusion comes economically viable. Gods, if folks actually knew how much thorium-232 and uranium-238 is cranked out from burning coal, they'd be begging for more nuke plants.
I don't understand why people attack solar panels so much, really I don't. I mean, I understand the leftists want to shove them down your throat, but really - as Gewehr98 has pointed out, they're excellent for a private person using them to power his house.
Solar panels are excellent at a reducing your home's monthly power bill. Assuming you put in enough panels, orient them correctly, etc etc. They're good for remote locations that are not economical to wire with power as well. Solar is excellent for small applications. It's too expensive and non-continuous for wide spread use. Plus lots of areas just flat out don't have the open land.
Their primary problem is they just don't scale. I heard of a new solar array out in the desert. 140 acres to produce 15 MW. Peak. No power at night, very little at morning and evening. My state alone has 9 reactors generating 9,229 MW. Continuous. Replacing them with solar would require 86,137 acres. Minimum, just to cover peak. And that's assuming we're in a desert, which we are not. All 9 of those reactors require slightly less than 140 acres, including containment, support and maintenance structures.
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As the guy who is going to pay for his plan, I'd like to voice my opposition to this "plan". =D
Give the sluggards more money? How about getting out of my way and let me put people to work and buy stuff for my business?
Stop making sense El Tejon... "The One" doesn't like when you make sense..
Can just keep repeating..
Yes we can..
Yes we can..
Yes we can..
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I'm not anti-solar. In certain limited niches it's great.
But people suggesting it as a viable alternative to conventional means of electricity generation are either unaware of or simply choose to ignore the facts. Even in desert states with a lot of free space like NV solar simply cannot keep up with demand.
IOW, people like G98 who choose to utilize it for themselves are probably making a good and logical choice. People who try to ram it down the throat of the public as some green panacea are either ignorant, deluded or using it as an excuse to expand the .gov's power.
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"I lived literally within walking distance of TMI for 10 years and I was never worried."
I grew up not far from TMI, and was there when the incident occurred.
Even though it eventually turned out to be a contained accident, the spectre of being driven from your home for a long, long time is a very powerful, and lasting, one.
I've not looked at nuclear energy the same since then.
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"I lived literally within walking distance of TMI for 10 years and I was never worried."
I grew up not far from TMI, and was there when the incident occurred.
Even though it eventually turned out to be a contained accident, the spectre of being driven from your home for a long, long time is a very powerful, and lasting, one.
I've not looked at nuclear energy the same since then.
Reactor design has advanced about as far since the 1970's as all other high tech has. They're not the same at all, newer ones. And the next gen, pebble-bed, isn't even capable of runaway. If cooling stops, fission stops.
I see nuclear power a little differently, too. Cold can kill here, and that reactor at Seabrook helps ensure that the lights can stay on no matter what. The supply of oil could shut off, and it'd still be fueled for a number of years, pumping out megawatts of power nonstop.
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I have no problem with individuals putting up solar panels on their homes, Gew. Of course, you will need to cut your grass, keep your trash can out of sight, park your cars in the garage, take down your Christmas lights down by January 3rd, not throw trash in your front lawn like my neighborhood Ron Paul voter, and refrain from putting sharks in your window as well.
I object to tax-payer funded solar panels and *looks out window* windmills. These debacles are nothing more than sop to White Guilt.
"Boo hoo hoo, I am warm and comfortable, I feel bad and must make others suffer for my guilt."
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I must make sure to move in next door to El Tejon once I get my degree.
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Because you will keep your property up?
I'll even let you wear your Wookie suit when you mow your grass, Micro. Move your Ron Paul signs, just don't mow around them. =D
*Make sure you stay away from the Cheetoes when you wear your Wookie suit mowing in the summer. It can get humid here and the salt will wear you down, especially all covered up in Wookie fur*
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*makes note to actually get a Wookie suit*.