Post by: Racehorse on March 24, 2008, 08:51:42 AM
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US AIRWAYS ROUTE FROM DENVER TO CHARLOTTE
Pilot's gun goes off
on US Airways flight
Officials say aircraft was never in danger
APRIL BETHEA
abethea@charlotteobserver.com
Related Content
Contact us | Were you on the flight?
A gun carried by a US Airways pilot accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte on Saturday, according to airline and federal officials.
No one was injured, and the aircraft was not in any danger during the flight, officials said. It landed at Charlotte/Douglas International Airport around 11:51 a.m. Saturday.
The pilot, who wasn't identified, was allowed to carry the firearm as part of the Federal Flight Deck Officer program run by the Transportation Security Administration, officials said. The program was created after the 9-11 terrorist attacks and allows eligible crew members to use a firearm to defend against an act of criminal violence or air piracy, according to the TSA's Web site. Those eligible include pilots, flight engineers or navigators.
The pilot involved in Saturday's incident last qualified for the TSA program in November.
In a statement, the TSA said that the agency and "Federal Air Marshals Service take this matter seriously and it is receiving immediate attention."
US Airways also said it is cooperating with law enforcement. The incident occurred on US Airways Flight 1536, which had 124 passengers, two pilots and three flight attendants on board, the airline said. The aircraft was removed from service.
Pilot's gun goes off
on US Airways flight
Officials say aircraft was never in danger
APRIL BETHEA
abethea@charlotteobserver.com
Related Content
Contact us | Were you on the flight?
A gun carried by a US Airways pilot accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte on Saturday, according to airline and federal officials.
No one was injured, and the aircraft was not in any danger during the flight, officials said. It landed at Charlotte/Douglas International Airport around 11:51 a.m. Saturday.
The pilot, who wasn't identified, was allowed to carry the firearm as part of the Federal Flight Deck Officer program run by the Transportation Security Administration, officials said. The program was created after the 9-11 terrorist attacks and allows eligible crew members to use a firearm to defend against an act of criminal violence or air piracy, according to the TSA's Web site. Those eligible include pilots, flight engineers or navigators.
The pilot involved in Saturday's incident last qualified for the TSA program in November.
In a statement, the TSA said that the agency and "Federal Air Marshals Service take this matter seriously and it is receiving immediate attention."
US Airways also said it is cooperating with law enforcement. The incident occurred on US Airways Flight 1536, which had 124 passengers, two pilots and three flight attendants on board, the airline said. The aircraft was removed from service.
"I'm the only one on this flight professional enough to carry a ...BANG!!!!!!"
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 24, 2008, 08:52:48 AM
Post by: Racehorse on March 24, 2008, 09:06:53 AM
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Andrea McCauley said the gun discharged in the cockpit, but she could not release how the gun was being transported at the time.
That's all I could find. I'm guessing it was somehow stupidity related, and that's why they're not saying how it went off.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 24, 2008, 09:16:50 AM
Post by: 280plus on March 24, 2008, 11:02:56 AM
Post by: Paddy on March 24, 2008, 11:07:52 AM
Post by: Devonai on March 24, 2008, 11:11:51 AM
Post by: crt360 on March 24, 2008, 11:17:30 AM
It was no doubt one of those eeevil Glocks. They go off if you just look at them wrong. They're lucky it didn't KABOOM and take down the whole plane.
exactly what I was thinking
Post by: grislyatoms on March 24, 2008, 11:18:56 AM
Post by: Boomhauer on March 24, 2008, 11:30:34 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on March 24, 2008, 11:33:18 AM
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"Federal flight deck officers are authorized and trained to carry their firearms on their person inside the flight deck of an aircraft," said the TSA spokesperson.
The weapon used by the officers are H&K 40-caliber semiautomatics.
The weapon used by the officers are H&K 40-caliber semiautomatics.
Post by: Werewolf on March 24, 2008, 12:31:16 PM
Post by: crt360 on March 24, 2008, 01:52:09 PM
No such thing as an accidental discharge just negligent ones. And I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that's what happened on the plane.
. . . but how can you disregard the truthful word of federal officials?
Quote
A gun carried by a US Airways pilot accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte on Saturday, according to airline and federal officials
Post by: Leatherneck on March 24, 2008, 02:31:58 PM
TC
Post by: Leatherneck on March 24, 2008, 02:49:48 PM
True? Or just Shepard Smith's familiar spewing?
TC
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on March 24, 2008, 03:20:38 PM
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Any info on how or why the gun was fired?
Twilight Zone episode with William Shatner covered this. The pilot encountered a gremlin on the wing, and had to shoot it off to keep him from destroying the plane. Post by: DJJ on March 24, 2008, 06:13:24 PM
I'm the only one on this flight professional enough to carry a ...BANG!!!!!!"
How do you spell a whistling noise?
Post by: Dntsycnt on March 24, 2008, 06:31:43 PM
This is especially useful if your mother effing plane happens to have mother effing snakes on it.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on March 24, 2008, 06:41:29 PM
Liars. We all know that if you shoot a gun on a plane the vacuum sucks everyone through the bullet hole.
This is especially useful if your mother effing plane happens to have mother effing snakes on it.
This is especially useful if your mother effing plane happens to have mother effing snakes on it.
Only if you have had it with them.
Post by: Archie on March 24, 2008, 08:03:46 PM
Any information on exactly when the firearm was discharged? Particularly was it while the aircraft was at the gate, either prior to takeoff or as the plane was being off loaded?
Post by: johnster999 on March 24, 2008, 08:16:00 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on March 24, 2008, 09:50:51 PM
Pilots have to load and unload their firearms IN THE COCKPIT. When the flight is over and before they leave, they must unload the firearm and lock it with a little padlock and then put it away in their carry case.
Any information on exactly when the firearm was discharged? Particularly was it while the aircraft was at the gate, either prior to takeoff or as the plane was being off loaded?
Any information on exactly when the firearm was discharged? Particularly was it while the aircraft was at the gate, either prior to takeoff or as the plane was being off loaded?
The story I read said it was while they were preparing to land, on approach. Maybe he was trying to get a jump on the process.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 24, 2008, 09:55:02 PM
Post by: Fly320s on March 25, 2008, 12:54:41 AM
Pilots have to load and unload their firearms IN THE COCKPIT.
False.
Post by: roo_ster on March 25, 2008, 03:43:59 AM
Post by: DJJ on March 25, 2008, 03:01:18 PM
Pilots have to load and unload their firearms IN THE COCKPIT.
False.
If you know more, tell us!
Post by: Werewolf on March 25, 2008, 04:05:12 PM
Pilots have to load and unload their firearms IN THE COCKPIT.
False.
If you know more, tell us!
Isnt' Fly320S a commercial pilot? He should know the facts of what the regs are...
Paging Fly320S...
Fly320S
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 25, 2008, 05:16:47 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/US-Airways-US-Airways-flight/photo//080325/480/e45d7ad66aec436dbdbb24ba6fb9bc8a//s:/ap/20080325/ap_on_re_us/gun_on_plane;_ylt=AvK4XBvROoYfcSSOLpzGvbJH2ocA
Post by: 280plus on March 26, 2008, 01:49:33 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on March 26, 2008, 03:47:37 AM
Post by: geronimotwo on March 26, 2008, 03:52:14 AM
Must be hard to hear the tower with that sort of ringing in your ears.
probably had his headset on. those are top of the line noise reduction gear.
Post by: coppertales on March 26, 2008, 09:28:38 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on March 26, 2008, 09:41:22 AM
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Pilot suspended after firing gun in cockpit.
The rest of the media is making it sound like the gun fired itself.
Post by: Fly320s on March 26, 2008, 03:35:25 PM
Pilots have to load and unload their firearms IN THE COCKPIT.
False.
If you know more, tell us!
Sorry, won't do it.
Quote
probably had his headset on. those are top of the line noise reduction gear.
Not unless a pilot buys his own. Airbus standard are light-weight foam headsets. They have little to no noise reducing abilities. Most pilots remove the headsets above 18,000 feet anyway.Quote
According to the news today, it was an H&K USP?
H&K USPc .40 S&W.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 27, 2008, 02:39:50 AM
Hokay, what sort of hoops must a pilot jump through in such a case? IMO, anything more involved than, "Change from strong-side holster to shoulder holster for comfort while piloting the aircraft," is unnecessary fiddling.
The first rule of fight club.....
No matter the reason, there are only two reasons a firearm would discharge:
Pilot pulled the trigger during handling for whatever reason
DA pistol, trigger snagged during handling.
Post by: DJJ on March 27, 2008, 03:24:02 AM
Sorry, won't do it.
Then I'd say you forfeit the right to post this:
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False.
Post by: wmenorr67 on March 27, 2008, 03:26:28 AM
Post by: 280plus on March 27, 2008, 03:28:55 AM
Range rule #1 here is, "All weapons will be unloaded and in a case upon entering or leaving the range" there is an exception to that rule. Concealed carry. You keep your weapon concealed until you're on the line, clear it on the line and reload it on the line before re-concealing to leave. Why? We don't want anyone loading and unloading (handling) their gun in the parking lot where it could go off for any number of reasons. Seems like a smart idea for the cockpit too?
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 27, 2008, 03:39:00 AM
Sorry, won't do it.
Then I'd say you forfeit the right to post this:
Quote
False.
No. No he doesn't. He has every right to withhold that information.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on March 27, 2008, 04:20:01 AM
Hey DJJ, there is a thing called need to know. And I don't believe anyone on this board, unless you are a commercial pilot, has that need to know.
No. No he doesn't. He has every right to withhold that information.
[/quote]
+1 to you both. Why do we need to know, other than abject curiosity. And, while I will admit I am very curious about the rules and regs that may require moving the pistol, chambering a round, etc., I also understand why that information would be protected.
Another question...does anyone know if these HK's are DAO, or do they have Condition 1 option. That may explain an "Ah $hit!" in the cockpit a bit more, at least to me.
Post by: roo_ster on March 27, 2008, 05:12:50 AM
Hey DJJ, there is a thing called need to know. And I don't believe anyone on this board, unless you are a commercial pilot, has that need to know.
Unless it is classified in some manner, American citizens ought to know what rules & regs are promulgated by the gooberment.
Heck , a good portion of classified material has no business being classified.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 27, 2008, 05:18:38 AM
Hey DJJ, there is a thing called need to know. And I don't believe anyone on this board, unless you are a commercial pilot, has that need to know.
Unless it is classified in some manner, American citizens ought to know what rules & regs are promulgated by the gooberment.
Heck , a good portion of classified material has no business being classified.
The terrorists would like to know, too, so they know when the best time to jump the pilot is.
I say leave it alone. It's a deterrent, they don't know how or when the pilots are armed. You don't need to know, either.
It's also an industry thing. I know stuff about FDA regs and medical procedural stuff that I wouldn't tell you, either.
Post by: Halo is for Kids on March 27, 2008, 05:18:46 AM
Found it:
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/0606/
Post by: wmenorr67 on March 27, 2008, 05:21:54 AM
Post by: 280plus on March 27, 2008, 06:26:38 AM
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These weapons carry and storage rules mean that the average flight-deck officer must handle his weapon about 10 times per day. The average federal law enforcement officer handles his gun only twice a day
Bingo! With that kind of baloney going on this was bound to happen sooner or later. And will again...
Post by: wmenorr67 on March 27, 2008, 06:31:04 AM
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Yea but you DO get to sit on Saddam's throne!
That is not a big deal. Anyone can do that.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 27, 2008, 06:32:19 AM
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Yea but you DO get to sit on Saddam's throne!
That is not a big deal. Anyone can do that.
Did you get to hold the gold AKs, too?
Post by: wmenorr67 on March 27, 2008, 06:33:38 AM
Post by: 280plus on March 27, 2008, 06:47:21 AM
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Yea but you DO get to sit on Saddam's throne!
That is not a big deal. Anyone can do that.
Post by: roo_ster on March 27, 2008, 06:53:36 AM
I am familiar with policies & procedures pertaining to classified information in both the DOD and industry.
My point was, if the regs are unclassified they ought to be open to public scrutiny, just as any other reg ought to be.
The terrorists would like to know, too, so they know when the best time to jump the pilot is.
I say leave it alone. It's a deterrent...
I say leave it alone. It's a deterrent...
If the SOP leaves open windows of opportunity for terrorists to take advantage of, I say the SOP is flawed. Sounds less like a deterrent than an opportunity. Such flaws might be needless fiddle****ing around with the firearm while on the aircraft.
The question then becomes, "How do we detect faulty SOPs and get them corrected?"
Exposure of chicken**** regs is about the only way they are going to be fixed/eliminated, given TSA's record.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on March 27, 2008, 11:22:26 AM
And, jfruser, most rules and regs are available...if you look in the right places.
Post by: DJJ on March 27, 2008, 02:52:59 PM
Post by: Fly320s on March 27, 2008, 03:27:19 PM
What would you consider to be "substantiated" from me? Considering that this is a mostly-anonymous discussion, and that you and I have never met, how can anything I write be 100% verified by you? You will either choose to believe me or your won't. Either way, our lives are unchanged.
I can tell you that I am a pilot for a major airline and that I have flown with numerous FFDOs. I can also tell you that because I have flown with FFDOs, I know what their procedures are. Under no circumstances will I tell you, or anyone else who doesn't "need to know" what those procedures are. Not even the flight attendents know all of the SOPs for the FFDOs, nor should they as the SOPs don't affect the FAs. Nor will I talk about airline-general security precautions even though all that information is probably available in the public domain. I'm not trying to be Secret Squirrel or Maxwell Smart, but I won't discuss sensitive security information on a public forum even if the information is already available to the public. Part of my employment contract with my company stipulates that I am not allowed to discuss that info, and I will abide by the agreement. Nothing personal to you, DJJ, or anyone else.
My "false" statement concerned the discussion of FFDOs loading and unloading their gun in the cockpit. That does not happen. Period. That is all I will say on that topic.
I'm pretty sure I know what happened on the USAirways flight, but until the Federal Air Marshal Service, who is in charge of the FFDOs, releases that information to the public, I won't discuss it either.
edited to add:
Just for the record, it wasn't me.
I don't work for USAirways, nor do I know any of their pilots.
Post by: 280plus on March 27, 2008, 03:33:37 PM
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Just for the record, it wasn't me. :grin:
Oh, like we've never heard that before...
Post by: Fly320s on March 27, 2008, 03:37:21 PM
Ta-Da.
Post by: 280plus on March 27, 2008, 03:39:30 PM
Post by: Phyphor on March 27, 2008, 03:40:34 PM
Let's think about it this way...let's not jump fly320's because he wont share. Sharing could get him jammed up with the bosses that put stupid rules in place.
+friggin' 1. There's no sense in Fly320s getting in any trouble for spilling the beans.
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After all, if per chance they have to chamber/unlaod in the cockpit, because of teh fear of a pilot walking off of a plane with a loaded gun in a holster (gasp! dangerous!), what do we think they'd do to fly320's if he went sharing information that someone said is supposed to be secret...
And, jfruser, most rules and regs are available...if you look in the right places.
And, jfruser, most rules and regs are available...if you look in the right places.
One thing I'm curious about is this, why make them unload on the aircraft itself while it's in the air? Wouldn't it be safer for the pilots to keep the weapon holstered and clear them off the plane, using a clearing barrel?
Post by: Phyphor on March 27, 2008, 03:42:13 PM
Why did my blood just freeze?
(j/k
)
Post by: johnster999 on March 27, 2008, 03:44:02 PM
Post by: 280plus on March 27, 2008, 03:55:44 PM
Fistful....flying an airliner....
Why did my blood just freeze?
(j/k )
If he was I'd bet you'd pay more attention to the stewardess when she's 'splaining the O2 masks, emergency exits and seat cushion flotation devices. Why did my blood just freeze?
(j/k
)
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on March 27, 2008, 04:12:19 PM
Post by: DJJ on March 27, 2008, 04:17:14 PM
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Just for the record, it wasn't me.
Of course, you know that denial = guilt. 
Post by: Fly320s on March 27, 2008, 04:45:46 PM
Can I bring a parachute with my carry-on luggage, if I'm unlucky enough to fly Fistful Airlines?
As a matter of fact, you can.
However, you should deactivate the AAD, if the 'chute has one.
Post by: Fly320s on March 27, 2008, 04:47:09 PM
One thing I'm curious about is this, why make them unload on the aircraft itself while it's in the air?
They don't. Ever.
If I saw that, I'd blow a gasket.