What happens in a civilian gunfight?

[Ron]

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/what-happens-in-a-civilian-gunfight

I found this to be a good read, not super long.

The holy grail of firearms trainers and students has been to know what really happens in an armed citizen gunfight. Not in a law enforcement gunfight nor a military encounter, but in legal defensive gun uses by CCW holders. For decades we’ve bemoaned the fact that while there are excellent data sources for the distances, times, conditions, shots fired, etc. data on law enforcement and military gunfights, there is not a similar database for civilian encounters. After all, if there were such a repository we’d know what to train for and, by extension, largely how to train for it.

[Fly320s]

Most civilian gunfights aren't gunfights; they are shootings.

[Ron]

Most civilian gunfights aren't gunfights; they are shootings.

Good point, how often to both parties actually fire their weapons?

[Lennyjoe]

Are we talking self defense situations or your run of the mill ghetto shootout?

[T.O.M.]

Let's assume defensive shoot on the street.  And Let's assume that you are uninjured.  Police show up.  Better not have gun in hand when they arrive.  You're gonna get proved out and cuffed right away.  Your gun and bad guy's weapon will get bagged and tagged as evidence.  You're gonna get transported to the station (unless injured.  I've seen some advise you ask for medical attention no matter what...claim chest pains.  The theory is you can delay sitting in a cell.)  You're gonna be stuck in a cell until you get put in an interview room.  You may or may not have your lawyer.  Police may or may not make statements around you to try and get you to waive counsel and make a statement.  Depending on the jurisdiction and politics, you may be charged and booked until your initial appearance in court, where a bond may be set (some jurisdictions are going no bond for shooting offenses at initial appearances).  Police may seek a search warrant for your home, seeking any/all weapons and ammo. They may ask for the combination for your gun safe.  They present the case to the grand jury, and you end up indicted.  Then it's plea bargaining negotiations and trial prep.

Frankly, a lot will depend on how anti-gun your area is.  If it's a clean shoot with strong evidence and a gun friendly community, you may not get charged immediately, or your case may get kicked before/at grand jury.  You'll need your lawyer's help to get your property/guns back. 

Then, the civil suit comes.  That's a whole different mess.

[dogmush]

Depending on the area even T.O.M's description is a bit much.

In central FL, it's not uncommon to see that the shooting was ruled justified on the spot, (or at least within hours) and no charges/indictment is happening. That info is often in the news stories initially reporting the event.

Sadly "civilian gunfight " is so broad a term that there's no more meaningful answer than "it depends on the details. "

[T.O.M.]

Depending on the area even T.O.M's description is a bit much.

In central FL, it's not uncommon to see that the shooting was ruled justified on the spot, (or at least within hours) and no charges/indictment is happening. That info is often in the news stories initially reporting the event.

Sadly "civilian gunfight " is so broad a term that there's no more meaningful answer than "it depends on the details. "

True. My treatise was based up me living in Columbus, Ohio, and is kind of a worse case.  I have a friend in Arizona.  His wife was home alone when the home invasion took place.  She opened up on the bad guys.  The PD returned the handgun she used in a week after test firing to get a ballistic sample in case one of the bad guys showed up at a hospital with a .38 bullet in him (they found blood at the scene but no bodies).

[Bogie]

Sumdood and a buddy tried to hold up an ol' boy near me to jack his truck while he was working in his garage. A short while later they began the journey to room temperature.
 
The grand jury no-billed the guy by that afternoon.

[Northwoods]

3-7 yards as a most likely range makes a lot of sense.  Distances beyond 25 yards being exceptionally rare also makes sense.  Typically, if someone is more than 15 yards, let alone 25+ yards away it’s going to be difficult to justify shooting as self defense.  Not to say impossible, but the circumstances would be fairly unusual.  In defense of another and I can easily see longer ranges being more likely.

I seem to recall reading that most DGU’s involved fewer than 4 total shots being fired, combined, by all sides.  That was probably 15+ years ago that I saw that.  Not sure how accurate that was then, or how relevant it would be today, but that also makes sense to me.  Crooks are generally cowards and value their own lives more than much else and generally will run away once the shooting starts. 

[MechAg94]

I follow an Insta5hit channel on Instagram.  They post videos of all sorts of violence and accidents from all over the world.   They post a lot of shootings also.  One over the weekend showed a couple with a baby heading to their door.  A criminal approached to rob them.  The criminal had a gun out and pointed at them before he was in the camera frame at least 15 yards or more away.  The criminal ended up getting killed as the father was a an off duty officer.  However, I have seen this several times.  The criminal has a gun out and pointed at the victims at distance while he approaches which can start from more than 25 yards.  The criminal usually moves in right away, but I just wanted to point out what I have seen.  A threat from a distance is less likely but could easily happen.

The majority of the robberies/shootings I see on there the criminal pulls out the weapon up close or keeps it hidden. 

[Pb]

Sumdood and a buddy tried to hold up an ol' boy near me to jack his truck while he was working in his garage. A short while later they began the journey to room temperature.
 
The grand jury no-billed the guy by that afternoon.

 

[Ron]

That 3-7 yards should be a wakeup call.

Probably not a stationary target either, closing in most likely.

[Pb]

That 3-7 yards should be a wakeup call.

Probably not a stationary target either, closing in most likely.

Yeah, that is what I thought. 

[Bogie]

Moving around, pointing, within grappling distance, trying to throw sideways bullets.
 
Shoot 'em in the crotch.

[lee n. field]

Moving around, pointing, within grappling distance, trying to throw sideways bullets.
 
Shoot 'em in the crotch.

"Why did he have to kill him?  Why didn't he shoot him in the crotch?"

(said nobody, never.)

"Defeat Generational Recidivism"

[Northwoods]

A hit to the pinky toe is better than not having a gun when you really need it.  But a hit to center mass is dramatically better yet.

[MechAg94]

Regardless of the 3-7 yards number, the steel targets I have set up at my parents land are about 20 yards from where I normally shoot from.  I figure if I test myself drawing and hitting the silhouette at that distance, 3-7 yards should be easier.  I guess I just need to do more unloaded draw practice.