Author Topic: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops  (Read 17540 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2014, 05:53:31 PM »
One individual being Drunk and Disorderly.  Now barring some major medical event in that individual, THERE IS NO REASON FOR HIM TO HAVE BEEN KILLED.


he wasn't drunk that anyone has claimed so far.   and yea  there is that pesky medical issue thing.   its amongst the reasons that calling it and execution and bleating that is someone isn't charged is at best premature.
  seen the video?
what would you have done different than they were doing?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2014, 05:59:48 PM »
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=131658

a jag one star tile crawler was the one who first called it a coverup in front of me.  he said that officers, or "slimy creatures" was his exact term were letting lower ranks pay when they should have been held responsible.  he was involved in defending one of the mp's

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/05/10/040510fa_fact?currentPage=all

the thin green line investigating itself?
bold mine

A month later, General Karpinski was formally admonished and quietly suspended, and a major investigation into the Army’s prison system, authorized by Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez, the senior commander in Iraq, was under way. A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February. Its conclusions about the institutional failures of the Army prison system were devastating. Specifically, Taguba found that between October and December of 2003 there were numerous instances of “sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses” at Abu Ghraib. This systematic and illegal abuse of detainees, Taguba reported, was perpetrated by soldiers of the 372nd Military Police Company, and also by members of the American intelligence community. (The 372nd was attached to the 320th M.P. Battalion, which reported to Karpinski’s brigade headquarters.)


and if calling in air strikes on civilians isn't an execution then what do you call it?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 06:07:20 PM by cassandra and sara's daddy »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2014, 06:02:08 PM »
any of you local folks know about this lawyer?  legit?  or a quannel x wannabe?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2014, 06:11:40 PM »
So what's the tldr version?  The guy wound up dead, which is unfortunate.  But is there any evidence that the cops did anything unreasonable? 

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2014, 06:15:53 PM »
real evidence?  there is a video that was supposed to be a smoking gun  but its not fulfilling any hopes dreams and fantasies. we are told there may be video from theatre surveillance cams but its not out yet. the video so far does not support the early narrative but i can't fault the poor wife shes pretty messed up over it and i don't believe shes deliberately untruthful.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2014, 06:21:55 PM »
Any word on the cause of death?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2014, 06:26:25 PM »
depends who you ask. on one front its an execution and if no ones charged its a coverup

and then there are those who still await the autopsy report

take your pick
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2014, 06:48:41 PM »
No autopsy yet?  The original news article is dated 1/17.  How long does it take to do an autopsy in OK?

Edit:  Oh, wait, I'm stupid.  Article is dated Feb 15.  Still, that's 10 days ago.  Shouldn't that be enough time get an official cause of death from the coroner?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 06:51:58 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2014, 07:00:01 PM »
No autopsy yet?  The original news article is dated 1/17.  How long does it take to do an autopsy in OK?

Edit:  Oh, wait, I'm stupid.  Article is dated Feb 15.  Still, that's 10 days ago.  Shouldn't that be enough time get an official cause of death from the coroner?

toxicology tests are the fly in the ointment around here. they are always backlogged  not sure about there. and they may not release report piece meal. might get it all at once
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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roo_ster

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2014, 10:00:17 AM »
Just looked at the video.

Sort of a cross between the Monty Python Dead Parrot Sketch ("He's just pining for the fjords") and a snuff film.

Yeah, and the cops knew he was dead while he was still on the ground.  "Calm down sir" to a motionless meat sack?  Right.  Every time I have wrestled someone to the ground, there has been a whole lot of heavy breathing, even after they gave up.  I presume this is not those cops first take down, so they will know the score. 

And the cop doing his best to block video of the whole deal and also making threats to distract the wife from both taking video and noticing her husband is dead...priceless.  What a fine example of ass covering and sociopathy.







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Tallpine

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2014, 10:54:43 AM »
So what's the tldr version?  The guy wound up dead, which is unfortunate.  But is there any evidence that the cops did anything unreasonable? 

The guy being dead.   ;/
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fifth_column

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Re:
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2014, 11:24:21 AM »
<<snip>>

Which is the point you seem to miss entirely in this thread and every other, is that the amount of force and utter lack of restraint by many cops is getting way out of hand.  Neither is there an repercussions or punishment for it.  The police have begun to view the public as the enemy, and not those they were sworn to protect.


QFT

I believe this is a natural result of giving precedence in the hiring process to vets.  The primary purpose of armed services is to combat an enemy; without an enemy there is no reason for a standing army.  Having an "us against them" attitude is so pervasive it seems to be hard-coded into human nature.  It's extremely difficult for an individual, trained by our government to nurture that attitude, to include civilians as "us."  It can be done, and it's easier for some than for others.  Officers that perceive non-police as either criminals, or soon-to-be criminals, may very well be in the minority.  However, until those that know better stop covering up the actions of their brethren that don't, nothing will change.

As I said, this is all perfectly natural and to be expected.  We are all human after all.  The only way to expect decency in others is by practicing it ourselves.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. ― Frederick Douglass

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2014, 01:14:25 PM »
The guy being dead.   ;/
People die all the time, cops or no cops.  Even when people die in police custody it doesn't necessarily mean that the police are blameworthy.  

Based on the excitement from folks here, I expected the video would show police out of control, wantonly abusing a man, beating him to death, executing him, screaming at everyone, threatening the wife, all sorts of nasty stuff.  It shows none of that.  It's possible that the police did all that and more prior to the video starting, but neither the video nor the news article provide any evidence.  

Hence my question: is there any evidence that the police did anything wrong?  I admit, I didn't wade into the story all that deeply, so that evidence may well exist.  I dunno.  But call me crazy, I kinda want to see some evidence of serious wrongdoing before I get outraged.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 04:15:35 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2014, 01:52:14 PM »
Heck if they had hit him at all after cuffing him that would at least give wife credibility.  Watch the varioys video interviews and the ever changing story. I don't blame her for being upset. If I started some *expletive deleted*it and my old man ended up dead it would screw me up too

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2014, 09:01:14 PM »
a lil reality
  guy was still alive at hospital
and look what familys lawyer is now saying
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/03/01/oklahoma-man-dies-while-in-police-custody-family-says-it-was-brutality/
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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fifth_column

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2014, 10:52:09 AM »
a lil reality
  guy was still alive at hospital
and look what familys lawyer is now saying
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/03/01/oklahoma-man-dies-while-in-police-custody-family-says-it-was-brutality/

Quote
The officers wrote they were trying to place him in investigative detention until they could find his identification

So that's what they're calling it nowadays . . .
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. ― Frederick Douglass

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2014, 11:04:51 AM »
so now the familys lawyers backing up

and soon we get theater vid and autopsy
  i am waiting for the first post now about the homeless angel in new mexico that got drt
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2014, 08:39:48 AM »
This is still getting more "air time" on APS than it is here in Oklahoma.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2014, 09:04:37 AM »
This is still getting more "air time" on APS than it is here in Oklahoma.


not too surprising.  The theatre vid should be interesting.  And autopsy will give a clue as to cod
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2014, 04:31:40 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2014, 09:57:45 AM »
Latest. Investigation is over. Decision on actions pending. Wife's lawyers statement is interesting and theatre vid should be forthcoming. http://www.mooreamerican.com/local/x1760089742/OSBI-hands-over-findings-to-county-DA-regarding-death-of-Luis-Rodriguez-at-theater


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Scout26

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2014, 10:50:02 AM »
Hmmm, ruled a homicide, and case referred to DA to file charges.

Which means he was killed/executed/murdered by the police.  It'll be interesting to see what the DA does.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2014, 12:21:31 PM »
Homicide does not equal murder. I suspect though that weather or not this is really murder there will be no charges filed and the DA will rule it as justifiable. After all the cops got to go home at the end of the day.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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RevDisk

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2014, 12:51:49 PM »
Watched the video. Er, if you want a person to survive, it's not a wise idea to have that much force on the torso. While not guaranteed to kill someone, it's not unlikely. Grinding someone's face into the concrete is actually more healthy, unless you are putting force on their neck. I've seen videos of police putting knees on necks, which is also a good way to crush a larynx or cause other damage.

For this situation?

With five available persons, ONE person should assume command.
He or she should give all orders in a clear manner.
He or she should assign one person per limb, more or less.
Suspect should only be shoved to ground long enough to restrain
Suspect should then be sat up, stood up or turned onto side. Side is preferable if the person cannot or should not stand.
The suspect should examined medically and searched for weapons. With five persons, both can be be done simultaneously: one for medical, one for weapons, three for crowd control. If there is no extra help, medical should be done in a rapid manner (pulse and breathing), then weapon checked, and then more comprehensively medically checked.

IF suspect is not breathing or has no pulse, person in command should detail two persons to begin CPR and a third person to immediately call for medical assistance. Command person and spare should handle crowd control, ground guide medical persons and handle additional persons of interest as necessary. This should be continued until medical personnel arrive, then all five officers should go to crowd control.


Regardless of anyone's feelings on whether this homicide was criminally negligent, it was deeply and troublingly professionally negligent. Assuming there is no criminal charges, they should be yanked from service until they are retrained and certified as such. The training needs to be reviewed. If it was good and the officers negligent, they should be appropriately punished for failure to follow procedures. If it was bad, training officer and chief should be punished more than the officers.

Scout, any flaws in the above mentioned opinion?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 01:17:09 PM by RevDisk »
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Scout26

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Re: Moore OK man beaten to death by cops
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2014, 09:07:59 PM »
That pretty well sums it up.

It's clear that was excessive violence used on the man.  Police need to go back to using their brains and mouths more to talk out the situation instead of going "hands-on" to quickly end the situation and get back to doing nothing in a squad car.

Most police have forgotten the "Everyone" part of "To Protect and Serve".  They forget they are working for each individual person and not The State/City/County, etc.

But yes, good officers can quickly and easily diffuse a situation with a soft voice and calm words.  Normally entails much less paperwork also.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.