Tracking the "Other" side.

[lee n. field]

they can differentiate between different alloys  

The word used was "isotope".  And, somehow, bullet lead is supposed to be a different isotope (atomic weight) from lead used for other things?

[Phyphor]

True that, and a California Condor is certainly a sight to see in flight, IRL.....

[Tallpine]

Actually what I have read about the California Condor is that compared to other birds it does not take very much lead to kill them.

But they fly so high and fast that it takes a lot of lead to hit them 

[charby]

But they fly so high and fast that it takes a lot of lead to hit them 

Actually I think the shooting of these giant birds is what almost wiped them out. There used to be a giant condor of the east coast but they were killed to extiction.

[zxcvbob]

Actually I think the shooting of these giant birds is what almost wiped them out. There used to be a giant condor of the east coast but they were killed to extiction.

I think their primary food supply is gone (beached whales.)  What else would a buzzard that big that lives on the Pacific coast eat?

[Ben]

Actually I think the shooting of these giant birds is what almost wiped them out. There used to be a giant condor of the east coast but they were killed to extiction.

It's really more due to habitat loss than anything else, and the fact that they are a bit more specialized than similar birds they compete with, like the aforementioned Turkey Vulture. The Turkey Vultures exist in the same habitat as the condors, but can also adapt to many other environments. I'll, for instance, see Turkey Vultures dining on a Sea Lion carcass when I run at the beach.  The condors stick to the backcountry mountains, and limited terrain therein, which is why the lead ban for hunting out here is tied to specific regions considered condor habitat (though there is a call for a statewide lead ban, but that is not condor specific). The California Condor has actually been declining since the end of the last ice age.

[Phyphor]

Hippies.

[TommyGunn]

Bullet fragments in gut piles. Actually what I have read about the California Condor is that compared to other birds it does not take very much lead to kill them.

Protecting animals and the environment, usually leads to better living conditions for Homo Sapiens. I really don't want to live in some toxic wasteland because someone screamed there are too many regulations and we need to get rid of the EPA.

That's not going to happen because of hunters' bullets.
Anyway the EPA needs to be seriously reigned-in.  Perhaps not abolished but certainly hog-tied.

[charby]

I did a little reading and yes the condors declined when the North American Megafauna dies out after the last ice age, but they are attributing the almost extinction of the California Condor due to poaching and poisoning of varmits.

I have also read that the extiction of the North American megafauna due to hunting activities of the early Native Americans. Native Americans pretty much wiped out much of the large game in North America and turned to agriculture until European settlement happend and killed 16 out of 17 Native Americans with disease. Some of the early European explorers mention in their journals about seeing agriculture as far as the eye can see in modern day Tennessee but when Danial Boone crossed over 200 years later he saw nothing but forests, a lot of trees can grow in 200 years.

[charby]

That's not going to happen because of hunters' bullets.
Anyway the EPA needs to be seriously reigned-in.  Perhaps not abolished but certainly hog-tied.

Why?

[TommyGunn]

Why?

If you're refering to hunters' bullets I seriously doubt there's enough of them out there to be a serious problem to the environment.
If you're refering to the EPA it's grown into an overbloated intrusive monster that wants to regulate ridiculous things to ridiculous degrees. 
A great deal has been accomplished over the past 50 years in cleaning up the environment and I think to some degree the EPA is a victim of this success. Instead of responding "yeah! We did it! We have cleaned a lot of cr@p up!" they've simply redoubled their reach.   

[erictank]

The word used was "isotope".  And, somehow, bullet lead is supposed to be a different isotope (atomic weight) from lead used for other things?

Given the number of reloaders who melt down wheel weights, I find that... unlikely.

[Ron]

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/california_condor_lead.shtml

http://news.ucsc.edu/2012/06/condors-and-lead.html

It must just be a big conspiracy to get us poor little gun owners  

Using a head in the sand approach is just asking for the worst possible outcome for us. Instead of working to be part of the solution, in good faith, we become the "enemy".

[mtnbkr]

Given the number of reloaders who melt down wheel weights, I find that... unlikely.

Bullet casters are a small minority among shooters.

Chris

[Ron]

Just to be clear, I'm not throwing in with the OMG ban lead ammunition11!! crowd.

What I'm saying is that condors are being poisoned by lead, potentially by carcasses and gut piles left by hunters.

If the hunting, firearm enthusiast and second amendment crowd doesn't become involved in finding a solution(s), a lead ammunition ban is a probability.

 

 

[Tallpine]

Just to be clear, I'm not throwing in with the OMG ban lead ammunition11!! crowd.

What I'm saying is that condors are being poisoned by lead, potentially by carcasses and gut piles left by hunters.

If the hunting, firearm enthusiast and second amendment crowd doesn't become involved in finding a solution(s), a lead ammunition ban is a probability.

 

 

Well, how about introducing wolves to California to eat the gut piles before the condors can get to them 

We've got plenty of extra wolves in Montana 

[kgbsquirrel]

Why doesn't California just pass a law banning Condors from eating gut piles left by hunters? 

[seeker_two]

Why?

Research how the EPA is forcing power generation plants to close due to unachievable air quality regs. Make sure to wrap your head tightly in duct tape to prevent exploding first.....

[brimic]

Actually I think the shooting of these giant birds is what almost wiped them out. There used to be a giant condor of the east coast but they were killed to extiction.

See, .gov should have banned lead shot centuries ago. If its difficult to kill a canadian giant with steel shot, it'll be almost impossible to bag a condor with it.

[ArfinGreebly]

See, .gov should have banned lead shot centuries ago. If its difficult to kill a canadian giant with steel shot, it'll be almost impossible to bag a condor with it.

Ah'm tellin' you, boy, THERE OUGHTA BE A LAW!

[seeker_two]

If the gov't would just make extinction illegal, the condors wouldn't have a choice.

[charby]

See, .gov should have banned lead shot centuries ago. If its difficult to kill a canadian giant with steel shot, it'll be almost impossible to bag a condor with it.

I have no problem killing Canada goose with 3.5" BB steel shot, they drop like rocks when shot over decoys.

[RoadKingLarry]

I have no problem killing Canada goose with 3.5" BB steel shot, they drop like rocks when shot over decoys.

So do the condors 

[brimic]

I have no problem killing Canada goose with 3.5" BB steel shot, they drop like rocks when shot over decoys.

Dekes are the key, you have to have them in close.
Most of the goose hunting in my part of the state is in what is known as the 'Horicon zone' which has a lot of refuges. Geese are smart and know where the refuges are and get educated really quick as to where the refuge lines are. Hunting on public land usually involves lining up near the refuge line and pass shooting geese. Ducks can be easily be taken with steel, but most people use tungsten/hevi-shot or other other alternatives to steel when hunting geese.

[Tallpine]

So what kind of decoy would one use for condors 

A fake gut pile, perhaps...?