NYT's attacks Obama for being *gasp* pro-gun!??!?!??!

[wacki]

On top of these perplexing shifts in position, we find ourselves disagreeing powerfully with Mr. Obama on two other issues: the death penalty and gun control.

Mr. Obama endorsed the Supreme Courts decision to overturn the District of Columbias gun-control law. We knew he ascribed to the anti-gun-control groups misreading of the Constitution as implying an individual right to bear arms. But it was distressing to see him declare that the court provided a guide to reasonable regulations enacted by local communities to keep their streets safe.

What could be more reasonable than a city restricting handguns, or requiring that firearms be stored in ways that do not present a mortal threat to children?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/opinion/04fri1.html?ref=opinion


This isn't an op-ed but an editorial which I can only assume was written either by the head editor or the entire editorial staff.  Did I miss something?  Am I in the twilight zone? The head of the Joyce foundation, crafter of gun shop ban bill, and voter for Ted Kennedy's .30-30 ban is pro-gun?!??! hahahha This shows how clueless the NYT's is.  Or maybe this just proves how much of a no-compromise anti-gun nazi the NYT is.  I can't wait for their next anti 1A article.  It will sit very nicely next to their anti 2A articles.

[stevelyn]

Calling Obama "pro-gun" is like calling the Nazi SS "The Department of Public Safety".

[xavier fremboe]

He has yet to say what he thinks is 'reasonable regulation'.  Remember, he's trying to move to the middle without making any commitments whatsoever. 

This is going to make Clintonian parsing look like straightforward 'See Jane.  See Jane run."

Clinton has slayed his thousands.  Barack will slay his tens of thousands...

[Manedwolf]

He has yet to say what he thinks is 'reasonable regulation'.  Remember, he's trying to move to the middle without making any commitments whatsoever. 

He has already said in his term as senator.

Ban on the sale, transfer or ownership of any semiautomatic firearm.

National ban on concealed carry for all but police and military.

[Perd Hapley]

Manedwolf, you should be very careful in accusing any politician of consistency, least of all this empty-headed Obama, who's only concern is being President.  And you definitely shouldn't expect any politician, even a very honest and idealistic one, to propose the same platform for the nation at large as he would for his home-state.

While Obama's record in Illinois is indeed a chilling warning of his own hatred of human rights, that doesn't mean he's going to carry that program to the White House.  Other politicians have completely changed their stance, once they achieve national power.  Obama will probably be the same. 

[wmenorr67]

Manedwolf, you should be very careful in accusing any politician of consistency, least of all this empty-headed Obama, who's only concern is being President.  And you definitely shouldn't expect any politician, even a very honest and idealistic one, to propose the same platform for the nation at large as he would for his home-state.

While Obama's record in Illinois is indeed a chilling warning of his own hatred of human rights, that doesn't mean he's going to carry that program to the White House.  Other politicians have completely changed their stance, once they achieve national power.  Obama will probably be the same. 

Were you able to type that with a straight face?

[Perd Hapley]

Uh, yeah.  What I'm sayin' is that a politician will play one way to one crowd, and change their tune for another.  Obama won't be any friend to gun owners, but he knows that what plays very well in Chicago won't be so popular in Iowa. 

IOW, don't expect Obama to keep his word.

[longeyes]

What Obama wants is clear enough.  We know that in this and other issues he's slithering toward the center for reasons of political expediency.

I expect Obama to be The Great Catalyst--if he's elected (may it NOT be so!).  For all the things he claims he doesn't want.

[wacki]

Other politicians have completely changed their stance, once they achieve national power.

Can you provide a historical example?  I have a difficult time believing someone can change THAT much.  Obama's anti-gun sentiment travels very very deep.

[Perd Hapley]

Change how much?  I didn't say he was going to sign some national CCW legislation.  I just said that he's probably going to back off of the idea of a nation-wide ban on CCW, and in general, he's not going to attempt the sort of extreme gun control he might get away with in Illinois.  He's playing to a larger, more moderate audience now.  Again, he'll still be anti-gun, but he won't be AS anti-gun as he tried to be in Illinois. 

As far as historical examples, you may have me there.  I have always heard that people like Al Gore and Dick Gephardt were anti-abortion until they reached the national stage.  I've also heard that Al Gore was pro-gun in his days of local politics.  But I'm not sure where to go to verify those things. 

[Manedwolf]

Change how much?  I didn't say he was going to sign some national CCW legislation.  I just said that he's probably going to back off of the idea of a nation-wide ban on CCW, and in general, he's not going to attempt the sort of extreme gun control he might get away with in Illinois.  He's playing to a larger, more moderate audience now.  Again, he'll still be anti-gun, but he won't be AS anti-gun as he tried to be in Illinois. 

Sure he will.

If there's one thing he excels at, it's emotional evangelical speaking, with swooning followers. He'll make impassioned speeches about VIOLENCE...in the INNER CITIES. And how it HAS to STOP.

You better believe he will. And facts won't even come into play at all, either.

You better be buying hi-cap mags and all the semiautos and rifles you want now, because if he's elected, by this time next year, it will all be illegal. Feinstein, Schumer and the rest of the hard left will go absolutely freaking crazy and dig out every assault weapon bill they dreamed of, and Obama won't only sign them, he'll campaign for their passage.

I even fully expect they'd dig up the Illinois plan of a $100 per year tax on every firearm. Probably also ban storage of ammunition, and make a publically displayed registry of people who have an "arsenal", as defined as more than six firearms. Why wouldn't they? It's their dream.

[longeyes]

I agree with you that the usual suspects will try to enact draconian bans but I have a little trouble believing they will succeed in getting them through.  I could be dead wrong, of course.  I think the same thing is true with an illegal alien amnesty; we know "they" want it but the people don't.

So what happens?

[longeyes]

Violence in the inner cities does have to stop, but I am skeptical that the rest of us, who don't live in the inner city and aren't violent, are going to really be okay with being asked to assume the moral identity of the underclass in America.  That seems to be Obama's intent but as he begins to implement it it is going to met with increasing resistance.  What looks dandy in theory, as a sop to one's unction, will look much less appealing, even to arch-liberals, when they realize what's entailed socially, economically, and politically.  It will be hard to get the American middle-class to LIVE FOR the American underclass, to give up their own lifestyle, and that's essentially what he's asking.

[wacki]

I agree with you that the usual suspects will try to enact draconian bans but I have a little trouble believing they will succeed in getting them through.  I could be dead wrong, of course.  I think the same thing is true with an illegal alien amnesty; we know "they" want it but the people don't.

So what happens?

A little trouble?  I used to think it an impossibility that the supreme court would rule 5-4 on the 2A

[Perd Hapley]

You better be buying hi-cap mags and all the semiautos and rifles you want now, because if he's elected, by this time next year, it will all be illegal.

If I had more than two nickels to rub together, I would.  As it is, it's a good thing I haven't fired my guns in a couple of years.  Can't afford to restock on ammo.  If Obama does take us down the road you're describing, I'll have nothing but my Mauser, as far as military rifles go.  It's a good thing I've already got the best combat rifle on the planet.     Now, I just need a bunch of thirty-ought on clips. 

[HankB]

I went shooting this morning at a local gun shop and range, and there was a car in the parking lot with an "OBAMA '08" bumper sticker. 

I also saw my first "CTHULHU '08 - why vote for a lesser evil?" bumper sticker today. 

[Finch]

Anybody else thinking that this is a tactic by the NYT and the OBAMA machine to trick people into thinking that Obama is pro-gun in an attempt to swipe vote from McCain? It's seems like a smart strategy to get a liberal rag to publish a piece on how Obama is pro-gun to get people who are tired of Bush like politics but still value their 2A rights.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Anybody else thinking that this is a tactic by the NYT and the OBAMA machine to trick people into thinking that Obama is pro-gun in an attempt to swipe vote from McCain? It's seems like a smart strategy to get a liberal rag to publish a piece on how Obama is pro-gun to get people who are tired of Bush like politics but still value their 2A rights.

That was my first thought, too.  They have the NYT criticize Obama for being pro-gun, so the dumb yokels in flyover country think Obama is pro-gun and vote for him.

[Perd Hapley]

Wait, you mean Obama is pro-gun?!  Woo-hoo, I guess I can finally vote for him, then! 

[Manedwolf]

You better be buying hi-cap mags and all the semiautos and rifles you want now, because if he's elected, by this time next year, it will all be illegal.

If I had more than two nickels to rub together, I would.  As it is, it's a good thing I haven't fired my guns in a couple of years.  Can't afford to restock on ammo.  If Obama does take us down the road you're describing, I'll have nothing but my Mauser, as far as military rifles go.  It's a good thing I've already got the best combat rifle on the planet.     Now, I just need a bunch of thirty-ought on clips. 

Uh-uh. No ammunition storage over 100 rounds in a private residence. Because if they go off, they could kill firefighters by shooting them, or children could steal them and use them. Why, they could just go off by themselves! Oh, yeah...and no military calibers, either, because that's what Mexico does. That "belongs on foreign battlefields, not in our streets". And the only purpose for 8mm Mauser ammunition is to kill cops.

You really don't think that sort of asinine thing would come along as well?

[Tallpine]

Uh-uh. No ammunition storage over 100 rounds in a private residence. Because if they go off, they could kill firefighters by shooting them, or children could steal them and use them. Why, they could just go off by themselves! Oh, yeah...and no military calibers, either, because that's what Mexico does. That "belongs on foreign battlefields, not in our streets". And the only purpose for 8mm Mauser ammunition is to kill cops.

You really don't think that sort of asinine thing would come along as well?

For sure he going to need to bring all the troops home from Iraq to enforce that one 

[Perd Hapley]

How do you know what caliber my Mauser is?  'Cause you guessed wrong. 

You're just not getting my point, though.  Yes, he might like to do all those things.  But the point is that you're giving Obama too much credit.  Look at how he's already flip-flopped on the Heller decision.  You can't trust a politician to take the same platform with him to the Oval Office, that he was pimping in Chicago.  It's a different constituency, and Obama will play to that different constituency. 

[Manedwolf]

How do you know what caliber my Mauser is?  'Cause you guessed wrong. 

You're just not getting my point, though.  Yes, he might like to do all those things.  But the point is that you're giving Obama too much credit.  Look at how he's already flip-flopped on the Heller decision.  You can't trust a politician to take the same platform with him to the Oval Office, that he was pimping in Chicago.  It's a different constituency, and Obama will play to that different constituency. 

And I think he's only saying whateve he thinks he needs to say to get elected, then he'll be free to show his true agenda.

[Perd Hapley]

Firstly, he'll want to get re-elected.  Secondly, as President he would have to depend on the support of Congress-folk who also wish to get re-elected, and that would be true even in the awful event of an Obama second term. 

And I still think you give him too much credit, in speaking of his "true agenda."  You and I have a "true agenda," because we have principles.  I don't know that Obama has any. 

[MicroBalrog]

I also saw my first "CTHULHU '08 - why vote for a lesser evil?" bumper sticker today.  grin

Poor Cthulhu. In this election, the sticker actually works against him.