Any Guesses on the 19 Executive Actions? What we should be most worried about?

[kgbsquirrel]

I don't know how exactly that could be controlled.  There is far, far too much industry that relies on that tooling domestically to shut down imports on all of it.  And enough of that is produced domestically that while increasing the costs, wouldn't be the death knell.

Like say, adding a tax on certain firearms that at the time was nearly 10 times the cost of the firearm itself (1934, Ithaca Auto & Burglar), or perhaps artificially constraining an entire market thus making a $250 item cost $20,000 (stripped M16 lower)?

When I was in gunsmithing school I made my lathe bits on HSS that was imported from china. Other local manufacturers are still using rifling machines that were built in World War 2 and half century old mills and lathes, machines that will not last forever.

With our domestic material manufacturing bases gutted, from steel mills to tool makers, just how well do you think the smaller and less established businesses will be able to cope with the affordable international suppliers suddenly getting cut off? Without such a diverse market of firearms manufacturers what will happen to the price of the products of the few remaining players? If you think Colt had an excessive mark up now just due to having that prancing pony stamped on the side of their receivers, imagine what that price would be without RRA, DPMS, et alii there to compete with them.

[lupinus]

What about an EO import restriction on materials destined for the firearms industry?

Tooling, metal stock, machinery, etc.

Assuming for a moment he even tries to work within actual legal scope of EO's-

Does he even have that authority under any current law? To restrict materials and not just the firearms themselves?

[seeker_two]

I'll be interested in seeing how he'll try to enforce a >10rd mag ban via EO. Mags don't require BATFE approval to make.

[RoadKingLarry]

I'll be interested in seeing how he'll try to enforce a >10rd mag ban via EO. Mags don't require BATFE approval to make.

Yet.

Meh we'll know today at noon EST-ish just how deep down the rabbit hole they want to try to go.

[Blakenzy]

I'm guessing that, regarding FFL dealings, REGISTRATION and BUYER LICENSING will be rearing their ugly heads. Outright confiscation, not a chance. You first need a long period of registration for that. Once the list is lengthy, then it's GO time.

Also, import bans, and future manufacturing restrictions will tried to be implemented.

It's all about killing new blood from joining the ranks, while current owners sit complacent, fooled by the fact that their guns aren't touched.

[Ben]

I'm guessing that, regarding FFL dealings, REGISTRATION and BUYER LICENSING will be rearing their ugly heads. Outright confiscation, not a chance. You first need a long period of registration for that. Once the list is lengthy, then it's GO time.

California is the shining example of registration = confiscation. I would expect that if the next crazy person mass shooting causes the same political circus this one did, that NY will happily apply their new registration list to the confiscation of whatever "evil" weapon was used in the shooting. The link below has PDFs from the State Attorney Generals at the times to law enforcement and individual targeted owners regarding confiscation. Without inciting illegal activities and simply stating a historical fact, the list of registered weapons owners was MUCH smaller than the number of targeted weapons in the state at the time.

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/confiscation/calockyer.html#letters

[griz]

Just watched the press conference and happy to report we and our children are now safe from gun violence.  It is over twenty actions, although he didn't say much except background checks, no assault weapons, and magazine limits.  I'm sure he has all the details worked out.

Edited to add that apparently what he talked about is what he wants to do.  The details of the 23 EAs are different, and less ambitious.

[charby]

here is the 23

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/16/obama-using-gun-issue-advance-health-law/

[lee n. field]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/16/list-executive-actions-obama-plans-to-take-as-part-anti-gun-violence-plan/

Mostly a bunch of nothing much.

[Fitz]

Some of them, i'm ok with. I'm also glad that the most heinous of the proposals REQUIRE congress.

[CNYCacher]

here is the 23

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/16/obama-using-gun-issue-advance-health-law/

Not bad.

[RevDisk]

The List:

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."

[HankB]

Despite what Biden was crowing about in the way of executive orders, from the look of what he's done, I'd say that someone informed His High and Mightiness that he's not actually Emperor, even though he likes to think of himself that way.

He is positioning himself for another push down the road - note that he wants the CDC to produce data showing that gun control is good, so he can proclaim his agenda has "science" behind it.

[Fitz]

Am i a bad person if I say there are at least a few things on the EO list that I'm OK with?

EDIT: woops, i already said that in this thread. sorry.

[Harold Tuttle]

[AZRedhawk44]

Am i a bad person if I say there are at least a few things on the EO list that I'm OK with?

EDIT: woops, i already said that in this thread. sorry.

Maybe not a bad person, but misguided into believing into Statism.


Either a person is a criminal, or a person is not.  I do not label mental health deficiencies of the casual psychiatric sort as crimes or impairments.  If you can drive a car, you can have a gun in my opinion.

The more benign issues on these EO's cater to the link that Statists want to build between mental health and gun background checks.  The inherent problem is the Statists get to define what good and bad mental health is.  You already know that inches given become miles very quickly.  Look at this government in the last 12 years.

Give no more.

[Fitz]

Maybe not a bad person, but misguided into believing into Statism.


Either a person is a criminal, or a person is not.  I do not label mental health deficiencies of the casual psychiatric sort as crimes or impairments.  If you can drive a car, you can have a gun in my opinion.

The more benign issues on these EO's cater to the link that Statists want to build between mental health and gun background checks.  The inherent problem is the Statists get to define what good and bad mental health is.  You already know that inches given become miles very quickly.  Look at this government in the last 12 years.

Give no more.

I fail to see how things like first responder/active shooter training fall into statism...

[RevDisk]

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."
Maybe legal EO. Depends if there is existing law and/or SCOTUS decisions. Thankfully, my state runs their own background check system, with info copied from feds. States can set up their own, and not share info back to feds, if desired.

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."
Probably not legal EO. Needs Congressional approval to modify HIPPA.

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."
Probably legal EO. May need Congressional approval if it deals with taxes.

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."
Definitely legal EO, as stated. Reviewing doesn't mean anything.

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."
Probably legal EO, as stated. Might be interesting if NICS fee is attached.

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."
Definitely legal, as stated. Writing a newsletter, or handout.

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."
Definitely legal, as stated. Highly suspicious, as I doubt they'll be using Eddy Eagle. Could be a good thing, though. Probably not, but has the possibility.

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."
Definitely legal, as stated. CPSC can review standards. Because there are none, sorta.

There is none for gun locks. http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=22222.0

There are standards for safes. But they are UL or DoD.
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/solutions/standards/accessstandards/catalogofstandards/standard/?id=687_15

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."
Probably legal.

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."
Probably legal, already done.

11. "Nominate an ATF director."
Legal, period.

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."
Legal, period. Not a bad idea.

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."
Probably legal, vague.

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."
Legal, but stupid.

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."
Legal, but stupid.

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."
Legal, if that is the case.

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."
Legal, health care professionals are supposed to report serious threats of violence or harm to law enforcement already.

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
Legal. May need Congressional approval for funding

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."
Legal. May need Congressional approval for funding. Probably a good idea anyways.

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."
Legal.

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."
Maybe, maybe not legal, vague. May need Congressional approval.

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."
Vague? Obviously legal, because it means nothing.

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
Legal.



Legal - 15
Probably legal - 6
Maybe - 1
Probably not - 1

[BlueStarLizzard]

So basically, a lot of fluff with a couple things that can be fought in the normal political way of things?

Phew.

[Gewehr98]

So would there be a penalty for a patient refusing to answer a doctor's gun question?   

[T.O.M.]

Gotta say, a few of the points, I wonder why he needs to order them now, and why they haven't already been done...

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."  When I was a prosecutor, we did a trace on any gun that was involved in a crime to (a) look for other crimes it may help resolve and, mor importantly (b) to see if there is a rightful owner we could return the firearm to.

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."  Again, wasn't DOHJ already doing this?

And, kind of surprised that we didn't see action on imports of firearms, parts, or ammunition.

Wonder when the other shoe is going to drop...or if the "third rail of politics" is still coming into play here...

[BlueStarLizzard]

So would there be a penalty for a patient refusing to answer a doctor's gun question?   

Is there a penility for refusing (or lying) when they ask about wanting to harm yourself or others?
Because I'm pretty sure you don't have to tell a doctor anything you don't want to.
Now, if there is a penilty in the making... Oh, HELL NO.

[AJ Dual]

Looks like the other shoe requires Congress. And the President's press conference today about the EO's that Biden had been bragging about has been held up as the climax of dramatic tension over the whole Sandy Hook incident, so now we're "past it" in a sense, and the angst and attention will be waning, while the next debt ceiling crisis looms in February.

I'm glad my predictions of a lot of fluff in the EO's were right. Heads were exploding all over the Internet, and here too thinking that he could actually "do more".

Is there a penility for refusing (or lying) when they ask about wanting to harm yourself or others?
Because I'm pretty sure you don't have to tell a doctor anything you don't want to.
Now, if there is a penilty in the making... Oh, HELL NO.

Even if there was, it would be impossible to prove in court. A purely paper tiger. Unless you snap the same day as a doctor visit, how could it be proven you didn't make up your mind, or get the idea to go off the deep end the next day?

I swear, some of these EO's are so weak, it's like watching a kid trying to pad a school assignment with extra wide margins, and double line spacing. 

[RevDisk]

Wonder when the other shoe is going to drop...or if the "third rail of politics" is still coming into play here...

Same. And I (softly) agree with some items on the list. Gun locks are garbage. It wouldn't be bad to label them as such.

[red headed stranger]

I fail to see how things like first responder/active shooter training fall into statism...

With that particular one, I would be most worried that the plans would be full of PC and/or just plain ineffective strategies.  And since implemeting "guidelines" from the government is often tied to funding, everyone could be using substandard plans.  Moreover, I would have OPSEC cocerns, as a prescribed standardized plan/training for all public schools and first reponders could potentially make it easier for the really bad guys to stage an attack.