We're doomed

[Hawkmoon]

Todd Starnes, Fox News, 8/9/2010

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/09/students-lincoln-memorial-told-stop-singing-national-anthem/

The National Park Service police (or a rent-a-cop working for them) tried to stop a group of high school students from singing the national anthem -- at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington. The National Park Service spokesdrone said they want all content at the Lincoln Memorial to be "content neutral" -- and went on to claim that's what Lincoln would have wanted.

So let me get this straight: The National Park Service wants us to believe that the President who started a WAR over the attempt by some states to leave the union would have objected to high school students singing the national anthem?

I ... don't ... think ... so.

[BMacklem]

I swear that it's about time we stand up with rifles and take back this country from the PC liberals and restore us to our founding principles.
Maybe even have a little good old fashioned patriotism brought back into our lives.
If they don't like it, then they can get the *bleep* out.

[kgbsquirrel]

The nation's flag banned at school and now the nation's anthem banned at it's memorials. Where's the jaw drop smiley?

[MicroBalrog]

The Gettysburg address seems appropriate:

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. "

The only difference seems to be that this time it is not openly violent.

[Stetson]

Since you are shushed for any noise INSIDE the Memorial but not outside, if they had moved 25 feet from where they were, it wouldn't have been a problem.  Apparently following the rules set forth at the Memorial (for all people) is too good for the Republican Leadership Conference kids.

Why exactly are we getting all ticked off?

[RaspberrySurprise]

If you read the whole article you'll find it's nothing to get wrapped around the axle about.

[Frank Castle]

Hank Williams Jr........... Mr. Lincoln

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBcKRjFKDC4

[kgbsquirrel]

I believe the issue, Rasberry and Stetson, is that the national park service has labeled our national anthem verboten because it "isn't content neutral." That the area they were singing in was a 'designated quiet zone' I believe is secondary but does show a contradiction in the park officer's story and that their claim of “It’s not the content of their activity – that being the national anthem – it’s the location,” to be an outright fabrication being completely at odds with all their other statements pertaining to the "content." One moment it's because they were in an area that they wished to keep quiet and free of demonstrations, and the next it's because the freaking national anthem is itself inappropriate.

I wish to keep harping on this point. When taken in aggregate with the multitude other offenses it can not be overemphasized just how obtusely disjointed and convoluted our country has become when the most fundamental symbols of our nation are increasingly treated as repugnant tripe.

[Hawkmoon]

If you read the whole article you'll find it's nothing to get wrapped around the axle about.

I read the whole article. What got wrapped around MY axle (in particular) was the idiotic statement that it's "what Lincoln would have wanted."

Aside from the idiocy of that statement, the NPS also claims the kids could have moved "a couple of steps" and been okay. This wasn't two kids, this was a class. I'm sorry, but I don't think making them move "a couple of steps" would have materially altered the perceived volume of their singing by other visitors.

[Stetson]

The Lincoln Memorial is a quiet place.  Go to the Mall, or Vietnam Vets Memorial or anywhere else and sing out.  Why there specifically?

[roo_ster]

The Lincoln Memorial is a quiet place.  Go to the Mall, or Vietnam Vets Memorial or anywhere else and sing out.  Why there specifically?

Maybe because freeing the slaves and honoring the man that made it possible is worthy of sonorous praise and celebration?

[CNYCacher]

Maybe because freeing the slaves and honoring the man that made it possible is worthy of sonorous praise and celebration?

*steps aside*

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

all loud noise is discouraged there.  from kids whooping etc     non issue  take it outside to the steps if you wanna sing . and i don't care if its star spangled banner or  le internacionale

[TommyGunn]

Since you are shushed for any noise INSIDE the Memorial but not outside, if they had moved 25 feet from where they were, it wouldn't have been a problem.  Apparently following the rules set forth at the Memorial (for all people) is too good for the Republican Leadership Conference kids.

Why exactly are we getting all ticked off?

Do you think it might be possible for the park rangers to explain to those students that the reason they're not allowed to sing the anthem is NOT because they are "content neutral" environment, but because they want there to be a RESPECTFUL SILENCE observed there?
I mean, if the leftie loons expect us rightwing whackos to behave .... just 'splain the rules right the first time.

[Boomhauer]

Do you think it might be possible for the park rangers to explain to those students that the reason they're not allowed to sing the anthem is NOT because they are "content neutral" environment, but because they want there to be a RESPECTFUL SILENCE observed there?
I mean, if the leftie loons expect us rightwing whackos to behave .... just 'splain the rules right the first time.

You underestimate the intelligence of the average park ranger. A good number of them are idiots, nuts, or a combo of both. And many are leftist. NPS seems to attract the kind of person that likes blind obedience to authority...and the kind that likes to go all "Respect Mah Authoritah!" on people. Apologies to Castle Key, he's a Park Police officer if I am not mistaken. But I bet he knows how this could have been handled better.

I used to work for the NPS. It's rather telling that the regular NPS uniforms don't have an American flag on the right sleeve, too.

I knew some good people in the NPS. But they were few.




I agree- a truthful explanation or the exercise of some discretion could have been used and those would have been the appropriate ways to respond.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Do you think it might be possible for the park rangers to explain to those students that the reason they're not allowed to sing the anthem is NOT because they are "content neutral" environment, but because they want there to be a RESPECTFUL SILENCE observed there?
I mean, if the leftie loons expect us rightwing whackos to behave .... just 'splain the rules right the first time.

or a better level of awareness by this group of the "best and brightest" wouldn't hurt.  i chaperoned a group of 3rd graders there this year and even they kept the noise down without being told.  but then again the privileged either right or left always feel rules are for the masses not them. sorry  wrong place to sing. sorrier you are too self absorbed and impressed with yourself to see it kid

[roo_ster]

or a better level of awareness by this group of the "best and brightest" wouldn't hurt.  i chaperoned a group of 3rd graders there this year and even they kept the noise down without being told.  but then again the privileged either right or left always feel rules are for the masses not them. sorry  wrong place to sing. sorrier you are too self absorbed and impressed with yourself to see it kid

I have never been there and would not have known of the expectation for silence.  I have little problem with most social norms and would comply...if I knew about it and figured the reason was "respectful silence," not "content neutrality"(1). 

The article mentions no sign displaying the rules/expectations. 

Is there some sort of matrix somewhere with a list of monuments down the left side and appropriate audible reactions across the top? Perhaps all song is acceptable at the Jefferson Memorial and only polkas forbidden at the Washington Monument, as GW found polkas distasteful?

Also, the noise generated by unruly third graders is not in the same league as a group singing a patriotic song. 





(1) If it is hte latter, I'd likely holler on GP.  Also, I doubt there has ever been a tradition or social norm enforcing "content neutrality."

[Harold Tuttle]

If they allow people to sing "God Bless America"
The Brits will demand to sing "God Save the Queen"
Then the 88 Arian Tourists will demand to sing "Uber Alles"

next thing you know:

[gunsmith]

the article I read when the news broke was it wasn't stopped due to "noise" but "content".
it was a spontaneous exhibition of Patriotism.

If they allow people to sing "God Bless America"
The Brits will demand to sing "God Save the Queen"
Then the 88 Arian Tourists will demand to sing "Uber Alles"

BOVINE EXCREMENT!

[gunsmith]

  Lets face it, there are those in our Brave New World who want everyone dressed in the same uniform, silently droning about- never looking up or down with rigid enforcement of political correctness. If the high school kids were singing about the joys of being trans-gendered, the local pc enforcement bureau would have hushed the third graders & forced them to learn the lyrics.

We need more patriotic spontaneity, a lot more.

GOD BLESS THE U.S.A!!

[Azrael256]

IMO, the students acted improperly by bursting into song inside the memorial.  While Lincoln isn't buried there, it should be treated like a gravesite and given the appropriate respectful silence.

The steps right outside the memorial are a public venue, and a boisterous display of patriotism is to be encouraged.  I played a set of various patriotic songs there with my high school orchestra.

That said, making a big fuss about it is asinine.  Had the NPS fellow quietly approached the adult leaders and asked them to reserve any further displays for the more appropriate venue twenty feet away, this wouldn't have happened.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I have never been there and would not have known of the expectation for silence.  I have little problem with most social norms and would comply...if I knew about it and figured the reason was "respectful silence," not "content neutrality"(1). 

The article mentions no sign displaying the rules/expectations. 

Is there some sort of matrix somewhere with a list of monuments down the left side and appropriate audible reactions across the top? Perhaps all song is acceptable at the Jefferson Memorial and only polkas forbidden at the Washington Monument, as GW found polkas distasteful?

Also, the noise generated by unruly third graders is not in the same league as a group singing a patriotic song. 





(1) If it is hte latter, I'd likely holler on GP.  Also, I doubt there has ever been a tradition or social norm enforcing "content neutrality."

its an interesting place  almost like a cathedral  a group of 150 third graders got quiet in there  and stayed that way without prompting.  i stopped there again today ay my kids request and observed that there is probably a 50 50 split on foreign visitors and home grown folks at anytime. they also seem moved by the memorial  is a shame some high school ap students feel compelled to perpetuate the ugly american stereotype  and that when pulled up are to self centered to shut up but feel entitled to kvetch and whine

[gunsmith]

its an interesting place  almost like a cathedral  a group of 150 third graders got quiet in there  and stayed that way without prompting.  i stopped there again today ay my kids request and observed that there is probably a 50 50 split on foreign visitors and home grown folks at anytime. they also seem moved by the memorial  is a shame some high school ap students feel compelled to perpetuate the ugly american stereotype  and that when pulled up are to self centered to shut up but feel entitled to kvetch and whine

a shame some high people feel compelled to perpetuate the politically correct stereotype  and that when pulled up are to self centered to shut up but feel entitled to kvetch and whine

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

high people?  a nps employee?  or any of the other folks , hundreds , in there?  heck if i was there i'd want em to stfu and i like the national anthem, or at least like it way more than over indulged kids.   the risk in telling kids they are special?   is some of em start to believe it. its not just ghetto folks on welfare who have entitlement issues

[gunsmith]

high people?  a nps employee?  or any of the other folks , hundreds , in there?  heck if i was there i'd want em to stfu and i like the national anthem, or at least like it way more than over indulged kids.   the risk in telling kids they are special?   is some of em start to believe it. its not just ghetto folks on welfare who have entitlement issues

its not just ghetto folks on welfare who have entitlement issues, cops have them, liberals have them. ... liberals feel entitled to force everyone into lockstep & they especially despise spontaneous displays of Patriotism ..