First Arizonans file marijuana applications

[Grandpa Shooter]

PHOENIX -- The first Arizonan who got state permission to legally smoke marijuana is not some 22-year-old claiming he's in pain.

It's a 60-year-old Scottsdale resident living with Crohn's Disease.

http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/66e05e75-d333-5708-a530-cfd473485a15.html

I don't believe this is a political topic.  To me it is more of a cultural/social thing, but I recognize I am in the minority on this.  If this is in the wrong place someone please move it.

I was struck by the underwhelming numbers so far.  I would have anticipated far more.  I got a chuckle when the director said not all of the pictures were good enough.  I probably know the guy who sent in the pic of himself on a Harley under a tree.

[stevelyn]

I'm sure some fedpuke somewhere with a lack of better things to do will uhm......... make a federal case out of it.

[MicroBalrog]

It should be clear by now that there are people out there which can genuinely be helped with the use of marijuana as a medicine.

In the same way that the government authorizes the use of morphine and barbiturates for medical reasons, marijuana can and should be handled even if we choose to keep it illegal for recreational use. In the fight between the prohibitionists and the abolitionists, the genuinely sick should be off-limits, IMO.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

In the fight between the prohibitionists and the abolitionists, the genuinely sick should be off-limits, IMO.

yes  and both sides are equally responsible

[stevelyn]

It should be clear by now that there are people out there which can genuinely be helped with the use of marijuana as a medicine.

In the same way that the government authorizes the use of morphine and barbiturates for medical reasons, marijuana can and should be handled even if we choose to keep it illegal for recreational use. In the fight between the prohibitionists and the abolitionists, the genuinely sick should be off-limits, IMO.

The problem is that the US Goobermint has heaped so many lies upon lies about marijuana and how it has absolutely no legitimate medical use or any use for that matter, that if they were to go back on their policies they'd be confirming what they're being seen as .............LIARS. 

[dogmush]

It should be clear by now that there are people out there which can genuinely be helped with the use of marijuana as a medicine.

In the same way that the government authorizes the use of morphine and barbiturates for medical reasons, marijuana can and should be handled even if we choose to keep it illegal for recreational use. In the fight between the prohibitionists and the abolitionists, the genuinely sick should be off-limits, IMO.

While I disagree with them completely, the prohibitionists have a valid point that drugs for medical use can and often do get diverted to recreational use.  (pill mills and the like) So if one were to actually believe that recreational MJ use leads to societal ills, then you couldn't leave the genuinely sick out, as doing so would lead, pretty much inevitably, to easier recreational use.

They're wrong, but they are consistent.  To the strongly anti MJ folks I've talked to the genuinely sick folks that MJ could help are collateral damage on the alter of protecting our children.  And they're happy with that.

ETA: Excluding, apparently, CSD.

[MicroBalrog]

We  - as in, practically every country out there - already allow the use of drugs like morphine for people who are genuinely sick and need them for medical reasons. Amphetamines are issued for fighter pilots, etc. This is not new nor is it controversial in any meaningful sense that if you have a true medical need for a drug you would be allowed to access it even though it would be illegal otherwise for you to even have it in your home. I think if we allow hospital patients to consume morphine, which is a 'hard drug' and is extremely addictive, it makes no sense to apply a different logic to marijuana. I may be wrong but it seems even anti-drug people can see that logic.

[Seenterman]

To the strongly anti MJ folks I've talked to the genuinely sick folks that MJ could help are collateral damage on the alter of protecting our children.

Relevant

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
— Mark Twain

I wonder how these people feel about alcohols absolute 0 positive effect on this country, (well unless you count having a good time and then it jumps to +1000  )  in compared with marijuana and what the big difference is. If these people where consistent they'd advocate banning cigarettes (and I'm a smoker) and alcohol, it would at least make me respect them a bit more, and show everyone else what loons they are.

[Tallpine]

I may be wrong but it seems even anti-drug people can see that logic.

I doubt it... 

Drugs are baaad, remember?  The gubbermint tells us so.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Relevant

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
— Mark Twain

I wonder how these people feel about alcohols absolute 0 positive effect on this country, (well unless you count having a good time and then it jumps to +1000  )  in compared with marijuana and what the big difference is. If these people where consistent they'd advocate banning cigarettes (and I'm a smoker) and alcohol, it would at least make me respect them a bit more, and show everyone else what loons they are.

alcohol is not without good uses,

[Nick1911]

I wonder how these people feel about alcohols absolute 0 positive effect on this country, (well unless you count having a good time and then it jumps to +1000  )  in compared with marijuana and what the big difference is. If these people where consistent they'd advocate banning cigarettes (and I'm a smoker) and alcohol, it would at least make me respect them a bit more, and show everyone else what loons they are.

I have to agree with that.  I have a hard time understanding the perspective of someone who insists that we maintain the status quo in this matter.

Either you're against all recreational drug use, in which case you should be for banning alcohol, tobacco, and (arguably) caffeine, OR you agree that some level of recreational drug use is acceptable - in which case you have a hard road to trek to convince yourself or anyone else that marijuana is somehow more destructive or dangerous then alcohol (liver damage, alcohol poisoning) or tobacco (extremely addictive).

[Tallpine]

I blame the Native Americans for not scalping all the Puritans when they first landed 

[erictank]

I have to agree with that.  I have a hard time understanding the perspective of someone who insists that we maintain the status quo in this matter.

Either you're against all recreational drug use, in which case you should be for banning alcohol, tobacco, and (arguably) caffeine, OR you agree that some level of recreational drug use is acceptable - in which case you have a hard road to trek to convince yourself or anyone else that marijuana is somehow more destructive or dangerous then alcohol (liver damage, alcohol poisoning) or tobacco (extremely addictive).

+eleventybajillion.

alcohol is not without good uses,

And what would those be, particularly in formulations substantially-similar to those we use for human consumption?  How, IYO, do those uses stack up against the documented ills they contribute to in our society?

[roo_ster]

The DEA is an outright evil organization, along with a goodly portion of the FDA. 

Heroin, as a painkiller, has few deleterious side effects relative to morphine and can be used at higher doses to treat greater pain before the side effects preclude its use.  But, heroin is not legal and morphine is.

Many of the newer opiate pain killers are spiked with tylenol so that if they are abused, the abuser will do permanent damage to themselves above & beyond anything caused by the opiate.

DEA hounds doctors who help treat folks with chronic pain and would rather see folks in pain than possibly let some damnfool adult needlessly self-medicate with painkillers.

DEA = Evil and all who are employed by the agency are unfit for decent company.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

used in moderation booze has medicinal effects, and like all things side effects.

ironically heroin was developed and touted as a less addictive alternative to morphine.

i didn't know about the tylenol spiking, thats typical thinking when folks with no clue decide they "MUST FIX IT".

DEA = Evil and all who are employed by the agency are unfit for decent company.  is hyperbole    not even good hyperbole, though i can get you a t-shirt with balko's pic on it for ya

[j3rd]

 I'm a alcoholic/addict and marijuana is not for me, nor is alcohol, cigarettes, etc. But pot is basically a benign drug and it's prohibition is making a bunch of thugs richer than Al Capone and many of our national parks and wilderness areas dangerous to hike , camp and hunt in. (Not as dangerous for the hunters though, they'll shoot back.) I think we need to have common sense laws and stop filling the prisons with recreational users/ sellers. I was never a dealer, but I can't count the number of times I gave away or sold some of my stash. I could have been in prison for a long time. Somebody who sells heroin to a kid? Lock 'em up and throw away the key.

[dm1333]

I wonder how these people feel about alcohols absolute 0 positive effect on this country, (well unless you count having a good time and then it jumps to +1000  )  in compared with marijuana and what the big difference is.

Who says alcohol doesn't have health benefits? 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

[Pharmacology]

The DEA is an outright evil organization, along with a goodly portion of the FDA.

Heroin, as a painkiller, has few deleterious side effects relative to morphine and can be used at higher doses to treat greater pain before the side effects preclude its use.  But, heroin is not legal and morphine is.

Many of the newer opiate pain killers are spiked with tylenol so that if they are abused, the abuser will do permanent damage to themselves above & beyond anything caused by the opiate.

DEA hounds doctors who help treat folks with chronic pain and would rather see folks in pain than possibly let some damnfool adult needlessly self-medicate with painkillers.

DEA = Evil and all who are employed by the agency are unfit for decent company.

Aaaaalllrightey then

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/07/02/1431208/FDA-Considers-Banning-Acetaminophen-Based-Pain-Killers

http://www.cglaw.com/blogpost24_FDA_to_Limit_Acetaminophen_in_Pain_Drugs.html


now its not as good as the pro pot blogs....

[PTK]

When I read that the FDA is FINALLY going to do something about the absurd amounts of dangerous substances mixed in with hydrocodone, oxycodone, etc., I was quite pleased. So far, though, it's been quite a bit of sword rattling with very little action. Figures they'd screw up the first positive thing they're tasked with...

[roo_ster]

DEA = Evil and all who are employed by the agency are unfit for decent company.  is hyperbole    not even good hyperbole, though i can get you a t-shirt with balko's pic on it for ya

Aaaaalllrightey then

Hey, it is just my personal Zero Tolerance Policy for asshats who think it s fine to deny those in chronic pain needed meds for fear someone else, somewhere, might someday get high on them.  And in the process, ruin the careers of doctors who try to treat those patients in chronic pain.  Meanwhile, they pressure drug producers to adulterate narcotics with toxic substances. so that something less than 400 folks die each year and 24K end up hospitalized...with severe liver damage.

Those folks are evil and I'll not willingly associate with them any more than I would a child molester.

[MicroBalrog]

DEA = Evil and all who are employed by the agency are unfit for decent company.  is hyperbole    not even good hyperbole, though i can get you a t-shirt with balko's pic on it for ya

I do not think you understand.

You can persuade me agree that drug laws are here to stay.

However, I have a different view on morality than you do. Such is life. I believe that people have a right to consume drugs - a moral right. The state - that is, the majority of society - has chosen to effectively point a gun at the drug users (and dealers) and threaten them with prison and other forms of violence if they do not comply. In my view, it is just as evil to force people to avoid drug use as it would be to grab people and force them to get high on heroin.

I obey the law, of course - but what you cannot make me do is persuade me that the people who violate this basic right of an individual to his own body are good people, that I should respect them for what they do. They may command my obedience - but my respect, that's another matter.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I do not think you understand.

You can persuade me agree that drug laws are here to stay.

However, I have a different view on morality than you do. Such is life. I believe that people have a right to consume drugs - a moral right. The state - that is, the majority of society - has chosen to effectively point a gun at the drug users (and dealers) and threaten them with prison and other forms of violence if they do not comply. In my view, it is just as evil to force people to avoid drug use as it would be to grab people and force them to get high on heroin.

I obey the law, of course - but what you cannot make me do is persuade me that the people who violate this basic right of an individual to his own body are good people, that I should respect them for what they do. They may command my obedience - but my respect, that's another matter.

interesting

in that i don't believe the laws are here to stay

and i also believe folks should be able to do what they want

and i chose not to obey the law and was willing to face the consequences for that

[Pharmacology]

Hey, it is just my personal Zero Tolerance Policy for asshats who think it s fine to deny those in chronic pain needed meds for fear someone else, somewhere, might someday get high on them.  And in the process, ruin the careers of doctors who try to treat those patients in chronic pain.  Meanwhile, they pressure drug producers to adulterate narcotics with toxic substances. so that something less than 400 folks die each year and 24K end up hospitalized...with severe liver damage.
Those folks are evil and I'll not willingly associate with them any more than I would a child molester.

For the record, it's not up to the DEA who does and does not get CIIs, CIIIs, CIVs or anything else. That is dependent upon the doctor, and pharmacist in some cases.
If you actually knew what the state boards of pharmacy and DEA track when it comes to "Pill mills", you wouldn't be so quick to... quick to say whatever it is you're saying.  There are pain management clinics that have to maintain a "pain management" status with the people in charge, and they don't have any trouble.
There are other doctors, however, who will pump out 500+  prescriptions for CIIs in one day. They arrested an 80 or so year old MD in Austin recently who pushed that number.*

Allsoooo foooor the record: the hydrocodone/apap or ibu  combo drugs aren't combo drugs just because someone thought it would be a good idea to poison people who abuse those drugs.  If you'd like, you can look up the efficacy trials comparing the combos and other drugs.

Furthermore, if you think liver damage is worse than the effects of opiate addication/overdose/etc.. you're mistaken.




Sources:
*An hour long presentation given by the head of enforcement at the texas state board of pharmacy

[trombosis]

Hey, it is just my personal Zero Tolerance Policy for asshats who think it s fine to deny those in chronic pain needed meds for fear someone else, somewhere, might someday get high on them.  And in the process, ruin the careers of doctors who try to treat those patients in chronic pain.  Meanwhile, they pressure drug producers to adulterate narcotics with toxic substances. so that something less than 400 folks die each year and 24K end up hospitalized...with severe liver damage.

Those folks are evil and I'll not willingly associate with them any more than I would a child molester.

I think you may be missing the point that the reason people have liver problems is that they, well,  abuse those prescription narcotics to the point of organ failure. If the prescription say to take one tablet three times a day as needed for pain and you take three tablets at a time willy nilly throughout the day, then yes you will damage organs and your 30 day supply will run out in 7 and you will come to the pharmacy and yell and moan and then go yell and moan at the doctor. There is a distinction between those in true chronic pain and those lortab junkies doctor shopping for more "WATSON BRAND HYDOCODONES COS THE MALLINKRODT ONES DONT WORK"