Fort Bragg, North Carolina

[Perd Hapley]

From the article, which many of you don't seem to have read. 

He told CNN on Tuesday that there were 40 work orders on the barracks before the video was made, and only seven of them were incomplete when the pictures were taken. Most repairs have since been made, Earnhardt said, and soldiers are housed in the barracks.

Edward Frawley told CNN on Tuesday that the Army has "done a lot in the last two weeks" to fix up the barracks.

[Bogie]

Heck, I remember nights where I would have welcomed a tent... Or a shelter half. Or a tarp. Or even a poncho and liner. Vehicles can provide excellent shelter sometimes.
 
You can get real familiar with the critters sometimes.
 
I don't see what the big deal is with lead paint. You paint over it. No problem. If you REALLY want to work at things, you can kill brain cells. Fine. Work at it.
 

[Ezekiel]

Heck, I remember nights where I would have welcomed a tent... Or a shelter half. Or a tarp. Or even a poncho and liner. Vehicles can provide excellent shelter sometimes.

That's, sort of, what I was thinking: if it is that bad, there are multitudes of options...

[Bogie]

Zeke, remember that soldiers generally have weapons handy, or can improvise them. Stay away from the bivouac location.
 

[Perd Hapley]

That's, sort of, what I was thinking: if it is that bad, there are multitudes of options...

Why don't you rush on down there, and give them your brilliant options?  I'm sure they'd be very appreciative, being too dumb to concoct any on their own.

[freakazoid]

So everything the military does is the best thing? And you would make fun of anybody who has an opinion on what they should do?

[wideym]

During the late 90's there was a dramatic shift in Barraks life.  The Single Soldier Program made Health and Welfare inspections a thing of the past.  While H&W inspections were pain in the ass and usually used to screw with joe, they did help keep a lid on damage and cleanliness. 

18 to 21 year old privates are about as destrutive a band of drunk apes riding elephants.  Add alcohol to the mix and your lucky they don't burn down the building.  They also have the "it's not my job" attitude or just don't have the skills or tools.  I spent ten years in the lower enlisted Infantry barracks from 89-99.  The nicest buildings I lived in were the ones where the occupants took care of building.  If living better meant scrounging a couch for the common area, buying better cleaning supplies than the supply room issued, or fixing broken lights or plumbing ourselves, so be it. 

Self reliance is a virtue not generally taught by the governent, even in the military.  The sooner you learn it the better off you will live.

[Bogie]

So everything the military does is the best thing?

Well, the vast majority of what the military does is the best thing. Because they've tried other ways that didn't work, overall, as well.
 
Notice the word: Overall.
 
They are not concerned about induhviduals.
 
They are concerned about group or unit preparedness. Overall. So if Private Clubber can't get with the program, Private Clubber gets invited to become a PFC.
 
IMHO, all that was going on with that barracks was minor disrepair. They had at least 100 bodies they could throw at it. Should have been fixed in two days, at the most, likely with less than a few hundred dollars expended.
 
Heck, junior NCOs aren't bad at the "drunk apes riding elephants" bit either... It's just that they know that what they break is their problem.
 

[Perd Hapley]

So everything the military does is the best thing? And you would make fun of anybody who has an opinion on what they should do?

To who, or to what, are you responding?  I don't see anyone saying anything even remotely approaching those opinions.  Come to think of it, this whole thread is a long string of criticisms of the military.  Did you miss all the guys chiming in about how bad their barracks were?

And just to annoy all those guys, I would like to say that the accommodations at Sand Hill, Fort Benning were just fine.  The barracks at First Cav, 2-5 were two-man rooms, with modernish private baths, and the rooms were accessed by exterior balcony walk-ways, rather than dimly-lit interior hallways.  Camp Demi, Bosnia, had climate-controlled trailers, and pretty decent common bathrooms and showers.   

[RevDisk]

During the late 90's there was a dramatic shift in Barraks life.  The Single Soldier Program made Health and Welfare inspections a thing of the past.  While H&W inspections were pain in the ass and usually used to screw with joe, they did help keep a lid on damage and cleanliness. 

18 to 21 year old privates are about as destrutive a band of drunk apes riding elephants.  Add alcohol to the mix and your lucky they don't burn down the building.  They also have the "it's not my job" attitude or just don't have the skills or tools.  I spent ten years in the lower enlisted Infantry barracks from 89-99.  The nicest buildings I lived in were the ones where the occupants took care of building.  If living better meant scrounging a couch for the common area, buying better cleaning supplies than the supply room issued, or fixing broken lights or plumbing ourselves, so be it. 

Self reliance is a virtue not generally taught by the governent, even in the military.  The sooner you learn it the better off you will live.

Somewhat true, somewhat not.  I've seen very few barracks where the NCO's didn't keep an eye on things.  Sure, stupidity happens, but it's usually fairly controlled.

Sigh.  I do rememeber Ft Gordon well.  They tossed my unit in a barracks that had been closed down for a couple years.  Quite bad.  So we fixed it up.  Put hundreds of man hours into fixing it, beg/borrow/steal supplies to do so.  Most of us tossed in our own cash for this and that.  We had the military equiv of a freakin bake sale, a huge BBQ.  You could say it's pretty bad when the military can't provide a couple bucks for shovels, grass seed, paint, etc.  For us, we just wanted a nice place to live in.  Really built up morale.  Probably the closest I ever got to my coworkers was 369th Sig, spitting distance from Signal Tower. 

After the brass walked by and saw such a marked improvement in the barracks, they did the logical thing.  Move us out, put in another unit (Ordnance folks too, which was a kick to the groin), and tossed us in another decrepid barracks.  Hoping we'd again be such eager beavers.  We weren't.

[freakazoid]

To who, or to what, are you responding?  I don't see anyone saying anything even remotely approaching those opinions.

Why don't you rush on down there, and give them your brilliant options?  I'm sure they'd be very appreciative, being too dumb to concoct any on their own.

That is what I was responding to.

Come to think of it, this whole thread is a long string of criticisms of the military.

Where do you get that from?

Did you miss all the guys chiming in about how bad their barracks were?

I read them. What is your point? Did you miss the part where Bogie said that he would of welcomed a tent or something like it? I guess you think that he now hates the military too now huh?

[Gewehr98]

Bogie's just weird.

That's why we keep him around here.

This is a tempest in a teapot, though.

The barracks floor drains have already been repaired, and yet the prevalent answer in this thread is to arbitrarily put these troops in tents, which is something they probably just returned from in Ickystan and have no real desire to occupy here in the CONUS.

I agree with Fistful - unless you've been in the military and experienced the anecdotal sewer backup/facilities boo-boo, it ain't worth getting spun up over.  There aren't enough tax dollars to give everybody a new barracks, not even close.  So it's a bubblegum and bailing wire approach, on all military installations.  It always has been, and always will be, I guarantee.

Of course, being retired military, I'm somewhat biased with respect to Zeke's keen insight on all things Department of Defense.  Funny, that...

[Ezekiel]

Of course, being retired military, I'm somewhat biased with respect to Zeke's keen insight on all things Department of Defense.  Funny, that...

Stockholm Syndrome?

[Bogie]

Well, I guess someone failed to figure context...
 

Bogie said that he would of welcomed a tent or something like it?

Hell yes.
 
Because when you're crashed out in the middle of nowhere, and it's you, Mr. Tree, Mr. Fallen Tree, and a whole bleepload of things with more than four legs, ANYTHING is welcome.
 
Kid, I've slept in places where Gunkid's mother wouldn't...
 
And liked it. Because when you're tired enough to sleep like that, you're tired.
 
And I don't wake up real peaceable either... Best thing to do is stay back a little if you're gonna try the "poke and prod" method...
 

[Perd Hapley]

Freakazoid, you've been invited to look at Ezekiel's past comments so that you can understand why some of us react to him the way we do.  I have just searched for the term "military" by user "Ezekiel."  It provides plenty of insight into his attitude.  Check it out. 

You have correctly observed that I do not welcome any comment by Ezekiel on military matters, and will basically tell him to shut up.  You have incorrectly inferred that I have the same attitude toward others.  This is incorrect, and not warranted by the evidence available to you. 

RE:  criticisms in the military in this thread

Look at the original post.  Look at the majority of posts to follow.  A lot of criticism there.  I really don't know how you're missing it. 

[Ezekiel]

You have correctly observed that I do not welcome any comment by Ezekiel on military matters, and will basically tell him to shut up.

And you'll be ignored...

It's being missed because you are inferring it.

[Perd Hapley]

You have correctly observed that I do not welcome any comment by Ezekiel on military matters, and will basically tell him to shut up.

And you'll be ignored...  

Oh, I had no illusions about that. 

It's being missed because you are inferring it.

If you're referring to criticisms of the military, I certainly don't need to infer it.  The original post concerns a criticism of the military, from a military father.  Most of the following posts from veterans are also critical of the military, by way of saying uncomplimentary things about their former barracks, or by way of criticizing the chain of command at Fort Bragg.  Or did you think I regarded criticism of the military as a bad thing?  I don't. 

[Ezekiel]

If you're referring to criticisms of the military, I certainly don't need to infer it.  The original post concerns a criticism of the military, from a military father.  Most of the following posts from veterans are also critical of the military, by way of saying uncomplimentary things about their former barracks, or by way of criticizing the chain of command at Fort Bragg.

Oh, snap!  Hadn't considered that: because I took all of those things as being due process within the confines of grotesque, and rigid, bureaucracy.  (By being what it is, the organism will screw such things up.)

Didn't really see such as a critique, just fact.

[K Frame]

Enough, idiot children.