Move over, Prius

[Tallpine]

GM is working on a 150mpg true hybrid.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,363203,00.html

Pure gas/electric drive:

The Volt's internal-combustion generator engine powers only the batteries, not the car's wheels, meaning that it needs to run at only one speed, maximizing efficiency. Modern diesel-electric rail locomotives have used the same principle for decades.

[mtnbkr]

Could be interesting.

You gotta admit, though, that cars such as the Prius made cars like the Volt acceptable to the average Joe.  Something had to ease them into that technology...

Chris

[charby]

A hybrid that sorta of makes more sense.

I still want to know why not a small engine to generator to electric traction motors at the wheels? Just like a train is.

[K Frame]

Holy crap, the smug pollution is going to be incredible!

[PTK]

Holy crap, the smug pollution is going to be incredible!

True. And I live near South Park... 

[HankB]

I just read a story that Toyota, with their Prius and other hybrids, is holding back the Chevy Volt.

According to what I read, Toyota has commited to NiMH batteries, which means that the economies of scale won't be available for a while to GM for their lithium ion battery pack. Estimated replacement costs are $10,000, which will probably exceed the value of the vehicle four or five years down the road.

Lithium batteries have recently been implicated as the source of fires in some personal electronics . . . want to bet the GM beancounters are going to nickle-and-dime the Volt's battery pack to get the lowest possible cost, from the lowest cost suppliers?

Hmmm . . . a plug-in hybrid? Sounds like the drivers of these cars will be EVADING their fair share of gasoline taxes. The government has tried to hit users of "home brew" biodiesel vehicles with tax evasion charges for recycling cooking oil on their own, so we can expect extra charges to be applied to license and registration fees of vehicles like the Volt soon after introduction.

[Manedwolf]

I won't believe anything GM says until they have a production model. The company has mastered vaporware concept cars. They show off amazing-looking concepts, and then all that happens is a little of the bumper design is translated to a new model year of bland gas guzzler with old tech, perhaps five years down the road.

There's a lot of other companies out there that just BUILD the damn things and sell them when they have an idea.

[AJ Dual]

Could be interesting.

You gotta admit, though, that cars such as the Prius made cars like the Volt acceptable to the average Joe.  Something had to ease them into that technology...

Chris

I don't know that's true. I think a two pronged campaign could have been successful. One that worked on the er... "NASCAR buyer" by emphasizing "American Made", "reducing Foreign Oil dependancy" , and "Tough manly Technology" like locomotives, the M1 Abrhams MBT, and submarines.

Then the environmental benefits, economy/emissions, union labor, etc. could have been emphasized to the San Fransisco bean sprout set.

But a true hybrid like this is definitely what I've been ranting about. And with the new generation of silicon nanowire LiOn batteries that have longer lives, and can charge to 90% capacity in something like 3-5 minutes will seal the deal.

The current crop of "synergy drive" ones with all the added complexity, cost, and parasitic losses of running a combination gas/electric powertrain are just a huge waste that never recoups their manufacturing energy costs in gas savings.

What I'd further love to see would be having the ICE generator being a completely user removable module. Something the size of a large camping cooler, that can just be dropped out of the trunk and rolled away on casters to a corner of the garage when not needed. For the majority of your daily sub 100-mile grocery runs and short commutes, let it be a pure plug in, saving even more weight/energy. However you still have the flexibility with the ICE module for on the fly recharges for longer trips, vacations, hauling a bunch of crap back uphill from Home Depot etc.

[Tallpine]

I still want to know why not a small engine to generator to electric traction motors at the wheels? Just like a train is.

That's exactly what the Volt (if it is ever actually produced) will be.  Did you not read the article ? 


BTW, LeTourneau also did this with heavy equipment.

[charby]

I still want to know why not a small engine to generator to electric traction motors at the wheels? Just like a train is.

That's exactly what the Volt (if it is ever actually produced) will be.  Did you not read the article ? 


BTW, LeTourneau also did this with heavy equipment.

Dad works for the railroad (BNSF), he took me on a tour of the locomotive shops, I saw diesel engines, generators and traction motors. I didn't see any large battery packs.

I have read about a diesel electric hybrid locomotive but I haven't seen one rolling on the rails here yet.

Yes I read the article.

[Tallpine]

Okay, without the battery the engine/generator has to be rated for the maximum load.  Plus the inefficiencies of electric transmission.  For trains, I think what they were trying to do was avoid needing a 128 or 256 speed manual transmission 

The battery acts as a sort of "flywheel" to even out the load demands, so the powerplant can be much smaller.

Part of the reason that a pickup or SUV (or any conventional car, really) can't get better mileage is that it needs the power to accelerate quickly and/or pull heavy loads.  But most of the time it has excess capacity, which costs a lot in fuel economy.

But batteries are heavy, expensive, and dangerous.

I dunno ... what about compressed air motors for the wheels?
Then just have an gasoline powered air compressor with a really big tank

Or maybe rubber bands ...? 

[K Frame]

I don't think it would be possible to make a clutch large enough/durable enough to get a fully loaded locomotive and train rolling.

[Manedwolf]

I don't think it would be possible to make a clutch large enough/durable enough to get a fully loaded locomotive and train rolling.

Wow, I'd hate to pop that clutch.

[One of Many]

Why is it that no one is trying the hydraulic pump and motor approach? You could build a vehicle with a small diesel engine to drive a hydraulic pump, filling a high pressure accumulator, from which hydraulic motors at each wheel could be driven. The control system could be electric (solenoids driving remote valves), run from a small battery, so that hydraulic lines would not have to penetrate the passenger compartment. A small alternator run from the diesel engine could provide enough power for the hydraulic controls and vehicle lighting requirements, and the heat for the passenger compartment would be generated by the diesel for winter driving.  No expensive and heavy battery systems would be required, and the high pressure accumulator would take care of power surge requirements, when not operating at normal cruise conditions.

[grampster]

 

Subject: The Air Car
www.theaircar.com


I bet they will be outlawed in the USA, might hurt some Arabs feelings and bank account****
 
a interesting invention that a French engineer has engaged a company in India to produce.  It may be the death knell of the American auto industry, but it would sure be a great option for anyone who wants to take the wind out of the sails of the foreign oil industry. 

    The Compressed Air Car developed by Motor Development International (MDI) Founder Guy Negre might be the best thing to have happened to the motor engine in years.

The $12,700 CityCAT, one of the planned Air Car models, can hit 68 mph and has a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor units. MDI says it should cost only around $2 to fill the car up with 340 liters of air!

The Air Car will be starting production relatively soon, thanks toIndia's TATA Motors. Forget corn! There's fuel, there's renewable fuel, and then there's user-renewable fuel! What can be better than air?


This six-seater taxi should be available inIndiathis year -2008!

[Manedwolf]

Subject: The Air Car
www.theaircar.com


I bet they will be outlawed in the USA, might hurt some Arabs feelings and bank account****
 
a interesting invention that a French engineer has engaged a company in India to produce.  It may be the death knell of the American auto industry, but it would sure be a great option for anyone who wants to take the wind out of the sails of the foreign oil industry. 

    The Compressed Air Car developed by Motor Development International (MDI) Founder Guy Negre might be the best thing to have happened to the motor engine in years.

The $12,700 CityCAT, one of the planned Air Car models, can hit 68 mph and has a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor units. MDI says it should cost only around $2 to fill the car up with 340 liters of air!

The Air Car will be starting production relatively soon, thanks toIndia's TATA Motors. Forget corn! There's fuel, there's renewable fuel, and then there's user-renewable fuel! What can be better than air?


This six-seater taxi should be available inIndiathis year -2008!

I just watched the video with the very unimpressive prototype. They had to speed up the video for it driving around a parking lot.

That seems beyond unfeasible. I'm expecting this will be another Zap! motors, if you know their saga of getting money from enthusiastic "get a franchise now!" dealers, and then being unable to deliver anything but a rebadged Chinese electric car that gets less than 20 miles before having to recharge.

Also. Three high-volume tanks at 300PSI beneath the entire passenger compartment. Uh. No.

[zahc]

probably more like 5000psi. That's what scuba tanks use, and my paintball tanks.

[Manedwolf]

probably more like 5000psi. That's what scuba tanks use, and my paintball tanks.

Okay. Sit on one. Now hit it with enough force to compromise it.

[mtnbkr]

A multicar pileup of those should be interesting...

Chris

[Brad Johnson]

Why is it that no one is trying the hydraulic pump and motor approach?

Heat.

You'd have better luck with an direct electric drive hybrid system.  An AC motor at each wheel to provide both power and regenerative braking.  An added bonus would be total control of power and braking at every corner of the vehicle.  It's the ultimate ABS and traction control system

Brad

[Manedwolf]

A multicar pileup of those should be interesting...

Chris

I would think they'd all crash together, and then all fly apart again as the tanks exploded.

[Iain]

I'm waiting for Citroen to bring their gorgeous C-Metisse to market. That's the hybrid the non-green part of me wants.



2.5 diesel V6 and an electric motor on each rear wheel. 0-60 in under 7 seconds (which isn't amazing but...), 45mpg.

Their C-Cactus concept is far more green, diesel hybrid with no performance pretensions that claims 90+mpg.

[mtnbkr]

I would think they'd all crash together, and then all fly apart again as the tanks exploded.

I was thinking more along the lines of each car shooting off in random directions or spinning around via random or singular breaches in the tanks.

Chris

[Manedwolf]

I would think they'd all crash together, and then all fly apart again as the tanks exploded.

I was thinking more along the lines of each car shooting off in random directions or spinning around via random or singular breaches in the tanks.

Chris

Only if they make the cartoon "fweeeeeee!" sound of leaking air. 

[Perd Hapley]

You gotta admit, though, that cars such as the Prius made cars like the Volt acceptable to the average Joe.  Something had to ease them into that technology...

But the Prius isn't acceptable to the average Joe...