Author Topic: Move over, Prius  (Read 13177 times)

Tallpine

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2008, 07:09:10 AM »
We used to churn ice cream at my church with a 1903 Case steam tractor.

That had to be seriously cool to see.

And I thought my 1950 vintage Case VAI was an antique ...  shocked
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Firethorn

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2008, 07:38:16 AM »
I wonder who will be the first to produce a light truck hybrid. I thought GM would have nailed that market down.

Instead, they took the biggest dern vehicle they had and made a hybrid version that only gets about 4 MPG better than the standard version.

4 mpg for one of the biggest dern vehicles is better than 4mpg better for a light truck.  Hybrids actually make more sense in the largest vehicles before they do the smallest.

Which is why I'm still wondering why UPS hasn't replaced their fleet of city delivery vehicles with hybrids of some stripe.

Tallpine

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2008, 08:03:52 AM »
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Hybrids actually make more sense in the largest vehicles before they do the smallest.

You got that right.  What we need is a 4wd hybrid pickup that gets 40mpg and can still tow a gooseneck trailer Wink

The battery weight wouldn't matter so much, and in fact it might help with balance and traction.  Besides, if four wheel-motors were used, you could probably save enough weight from not having 2 differentials, tx case, and tranny to make up for the batteries.

Last fill-up on our new HHR we only got 23mpg Sad  Of course, a lot of that was driving 1/4 mile back and forth from the house to the corrals in the rain to take care of our horses.  And I use 2nd gear ("I") for the 10 miles out to the hiway because otherwise you are standing on the brakes half the time.

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

mek42

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2008, 08:20:44 AM »
I wonder who will be the first to produce a light truck hybrid. I thought GM would have nailed that market down.

Instead, they took the biggest dern vehicle they had and made a hybrid version that only gets about 4 MPG better than the standard version.

With those kinds of marketing decisions, no wonder they have to shut down plants.

Wasn't Toyota at one time spouting that they'd have a hybrid version of each model by 2007?

Ryan in Maine

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2008, 11:31:49 AM »
Does Ford's Escape hybrid count? The 4X4 gets better gas mileage than my car. I think Toyota's 4X4 Highlander hybrid gets better mileage than my car too. Chevy's 4X4 Tahoe hybrid and GMC's 4X4 Yukon hybrid beat out Toyota's RAV4 4X4 and Honda's CRV 4X4 around the city quite often from what I hear.

Not trucks, but you can do a lot more with it than the family sedan.

I don't see why they can do it for their SUV's but not their trucks.

Manedwolf

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2008, 01:06:54 PM »
Today's Car Talk guys had a guy whose Prius had a catastrophic failure of the electric power steering while he was driving it, locking it into a turn. shocked

It's not covered by warranty, either. Will be $2000+ to repair.

mek42

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2008, 02:07:35 PM »
Today's Car Talk guys had a guy whose Prius had a catastrophic failure of the electric power steering while he was driving it, locking it into a turn. shocked

It's not covered by warranty, either. Will be $2000+ to repair.

The car is out of warranty or that part is not covered?  Be interested to hear more about this.

wmenorr67

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2008, 09:31:14 PM »
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Which is why I'm still wondering why UPS hasn't replaced their fleet of city delivery vehicles with hybrids of some stripe.

A lot of UPS delivery vehicles have been coverted over to CNG.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2008, 09:56:41 PM »
It's not a well-kept secret that the UPS vehicle you see today may look similar to ones you saw as a kid - for a reason.

Truth is, they are rebuilt by UPS on a constant basis, and upgraded when and where necessary.

It's kind of like a military Humvee in that respect - you can't buy a used one.  Wink
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K Frame

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2008, 05:49:33 AM »
"Equally cool is West Point, IA has a sweet corn fesitval in August and they have the corn cookers hooked up to the boiler on the steam tractor. Tractor doesn't do much because they don't build up a head steam to power it but use it to heat the water."

I saw somethign similar at the Centre Hall, Pennsylvania, antique machinery show years and years ago.

They were making apple butter in huge copper vats.

But instead of building a fire underneath, they had a donkey engine on a skid with steam coils coming off the boiler.
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Firethorn

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2008, 08:01:56 AM »
A lot of UPS delivery vehicles have been coverted over to CNG.

Makes sense in at least some areas. 

Gewehr98 -
I know UPS trucks(and other delivery vehicles) have some pretty long lifespans - but my point would be that there isn't any reason real why they couldn't start buying NEW UPS trucks in hybrid form.  Whether that be for expansion or the occasional truck ruined in an accident.  Heck, I even even expect them to look identical to regular ones, if maybe with 'Hybrid' decal somewhere so they can advertise their greenness.  For that matter, with regular rebuilds it shouldn't take much more to convert them to hybrid at some point.

Found a link!  Figure a 20 year average lifespan for an average UPS truck, I could see UPS starting up a few hybrid delivery centers - such as in California, actually shipping the older vehicles elsewhere to use, so they only have to have hybrid specific maintenance in one center.  Once it proves it's long term cost effectiveness, roll out into more areas using attrition.

On the idea of a hybrid truck, I was struck by a thought.  My new truck has a plastic bed, and there's plenty of room underneath the fairly high vehicle to have a sort of second bed with a layer of batteries.  As a bonus, it'd lower the center of gravity and place a good deal of weight on the backside, increasing rear wheel traction for winter/ice, rather than having to use sand bags.  On the drive side, I think that you'd probably find yourself still better off with a traditional traction system, though having an engine-generator under the hood, then one(RWD) or two(4WD/AWD) motors to provide propulsion might be an excellent solution.  You'd get the same benefit a train has - absolutely insane amounts of torque at low speeds.  Mated with an efficient 4 or even 3 cylinder diesel and you'd still have plenty of power to haul that 6k pound trailer.

Remember, as electric motors get smaller, they get less efficient.  So you have to determine whether the energy losses from a driveshaft and differential exceed the losses from going to multiple smaller motors.

Gewehr98

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2008, 10:31:25 AM »
Cool!  A hydrostatic UPS truck, not unlike my old Ford F-150 and International Cub Cadet tractors.  I wondered when they were going to try it on a road-going vehicle.   
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Tallpine

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Re: Move over, Prius
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2008, 03:40:02 PM »
The UPS truck that came today had a Cummins in it. Smiley
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin