Should we expect to see a decline in quality of automobiles?

[makattak]

I don't think Maned is close at all.

The Corolla is a $17k auto - I know; it's mine; I paid for it.

The Impala is, as stated, a low $20s car. The difference is in the amount of material in the base car, creature comforts, engine, drive train, wheels, accessories, etc. Yes, you can buy a stripped Corolla for  less. You can get a "fleet" (stripped) Impala for less. The two have the same paint and glass as the 'loaded' versions of the same model, so is not relevant. With a nicely equipped Corolla and a stripped Impala, the price is barely worth arguing over.

I'd bet fair sums of cash that the Camry and Impala don't compare, in the paint and glass durability, any better than the Corolla and Impala. The finish and glass (or interior) of Toyota doesn't match that of GM, even entry-level GM. The Avalon may be different but surely isn't on par with high-end GM cars. Lexus? Probably, but not greatly better than say, Cadillac. (But no Lexus owner calls it a Toyota.)

jb

Toyota Corolla: Starts at $15,350 http://www.toyota.com/corolla/trims-prices.html
Chevy Impala: Starts at $24,540 http://www.chevrolet.com/impala/

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

how many 250 k plus impalas you got? i've got a camry i sold and the kids over 300 k. should probably do another timing belt soon

[Nick1911]

how many 250 k plus impalas you got? i've got a camry i sold and the kids over 300 k. should probably do another timing belt soon

On a side note, do Camry's have interference engines?

[Gewehr98]

i've got a camry i sold and the kids over 300 k.

How much did you sell the kids for?

[mtnbkr]

On a side note, do Camry's have interference engines?

Dunno about other generations, but in mine, the I4 engines are interference and have a chain drive, while the V6 is not and has a belt.  The same was the case for my 4Runner (3rd Gen).

Chris

[coppertales]

The practice of covering up shoddy workmanship/design with cheap chrome strips finally caught up with US auto makers.  US auto makers made great cars until around 1970 when the bean counters took over the whole process of car design.  The US makers never got a good grasp of making quality small parts for small cars.  I went to an auto show last month and the quality of US cars showed....chris3

[MechAg94]

I don't know, I've heard there were many pre-1970 examples of cars that were back at the dealer a day after they left. 

What y'all need to remember is that domestic manufacturers will still be held hostage by CAFE standards so the only way they can keep making trucks and SUV's is to sell off a bunch of cheap disposable cars. 

[Marvin Dao]

Pssst. Acura is Honda.

Company wise, yes. Brand wise, no. Honda's been a well run brand, but the same can't be said about Acura. As far as I can determine, Acura's being run by a bunch of fratricidal idiots.

[lupinus]

The Impala is, as stated, a low $20s car. The difference is in the amount of material in the base car, creature comforts, engine, drive train, wheels, accessories, etc. Yes, you can buy a stripped Corolla for  less. You can get a "fleet" (stripped) Impala for less. The two have the same paint and glass as the 'loaded' versions of the same model, so is not relevant. With a nicely equipped Corolla and a stripped Impala, the price is barely worth arguing over.

Comparing a Corolla to an Impala is not a fair comparison.  Two different classes of car, so yes, apples to oranges.

Compare a Corolla to a Cobalt.  That is a fair comparison.  If you want to compare something to the Impala you need to step into Camry territory.

And I challenge you to run an Impala as long as a Camry or Accord with the same maintenance costs.

I've owned nothing but Chevy's, but there's a reason I wont be buying another if I can help it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think its admirable to want to buy american.  too bad the american car makers/unions do so lil to help make it a smart move

[JonnyB]

Comparing a Corolla to an Impala is not a fair comparison.  Two different classes of car, so yes, apples to oranges.

Compare a Corolla to a Cobalt.  That is a fair comparison.  If you want to compare something to the Impala you need to step into Camry territory.

And I challenge you to run an Impala as long as a Camry or Accord with the same maintenance costs.

I've owned nothing but Chevy's, but there's a reason I wont be buying another if I can help it.

Sheesh.

We're talking about paint and glass, here, kids. I never mentioned longevity or maintenance.

Toyota uses shitty paint and glass. GM doesn't. Can we agree on this? Regardless, I no longer care. If the paint and glass are of better quality on an Impala vs. a Cobalt, or Camry vs. Corolla, I'd be stunned.


jb

[Don't care]

.

[Balog]

While UAW workers are Americans, I sure as hell don't want to give my money to those useless parasites.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

While UAW workers are Americans, I sure as hell don't want to give my money to those useless parasites.

That's true. I figure I've already given enough money to the UAW in the form of taxes.  I see no reason why I'm obligated to give them even more.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

While UAW workers are Americans, I sure as hell don't want to give my money to those useless parasites.


pretty broad brush you tar those union members with.  could you substantiate it?

[Balog]

While UAW workers are Americans, I sure as hell don't want to give my money to those useless parasites.


pretty broad brush you tar those union members with.  could you substantiate it?

They all abide by the contracts extorted by the filthy criminals who head up their little wanna be mafia "union." They all make wages totally out of proportion to their skill and market worth because of the union thugs. They've done a lot to destroy a once proud industry. I'm sure most are just regular guys taking advantage of a "good" situation, but in the end they're still collaborating with criminals. I bear no personal animosity towards them as individuals; but the organization they prop up is corrupt from toe to tip, and their voluntarily joining it implicates them.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

is joining voluntary at auto plants?

what wages do they all make?
and what amount is it you think they should make?

could you substantiate this ?
but the organization they prop up is corrupt from toe to tip,

[Balog]

I know you're just being pissy now; you yourself have complained about how corrupt the unions are multiple times!

They make far more than people in comparable industries with comparable skill sets, while living in an area with far, far lower cost of living. That seems a bit out of balance.

Just look at the lubeless butt-raping the UAW have given the big three. Seriously, look at the contracts they've used threats and intimidation to achieve. There is no comparable industry giving that amount of pay, and bennies etc. The workers choose to align themselves with that. They have no sympathy from me. The UAW has been sowing this for years, and it's about damn time they reap it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i know that unions are corrupt  i don't have to guess. its the uselesss parasites part i'm waiting for you to substantiate.
  and company management is equally to blame. for the unions power

i take it my three questions aren't to your likeing?

[mtnbkr]

uselesss parasites part i'm waiting for you to substantiate.

Does it have to be UAW?

If not, I have a couple...

How about the UP that made us miss our install date because he wasn't there to drill a hole through a wall, a task that could only be done by "union employees".

Or the one that delayed another install (and later de-install) because he refused to show his ID when entering a secured facility.  His manager couldn't force him to show ID either.  They had to find a union employee willing to show their ID in order to gain access to the SECURED FACILITY to do the work.  Everyone has to show some form of photo ID there.  If you work there, you have an ID issued by the facility, otherwise, you use your driver's license or some other form of photo ID.

In my line of work, we frequently have to hire a third party to deliver and install equipment (networking devices installed all over the world).  It isn't skilled labor, merely physically installing the hardware and powering it on.  We never have the issues with non-union employees we get with the union jobbers.

Chris

[Balog]

You think way too highly of yourself csd. I didn't bother answering your questions because they're moronic and have no bearing on my simple statement.

The UAW is a largely criminal organization that used threats and shady dealing to get sweetheart deals. The people who benefit from those bad actions are no better than the higher ups who did it. They're Quislings of a sort, and as such I will cry no tears when they finally succeed in killing their golden goose. Oh wait, the fed.gov will waste billions of our tax dollars propping them up.... Again.

So no, I don't like the UAW or anyone who would be a part of it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

which union was that?  and again i'm no union fan i just find tarring their whole membership as useless parasites a bit broad. i react the same to folks who badmouth the military because they had a worthless turd supply sgt experience. i know quite a few union horror stories but the majority of the folks i knew were decent  . just seems the union protects the lame and incompetent.

my funniest union story was fist fighting some moron at a food show in nyc. i was exhibiting there and done with my part of the contest prep . saw a guy on a tall wobbly step ladder i went to hold it this jerk got in my face about how i couldn't hold his ladder i wasn't in the union. morons like that tend to become leaders in unions for some reason. usually apathy on the part of the membership.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I didn't bother answering your questions because they're moronic and have no bearing on my simple statement.


i made the questions as easy as possible and they all are taken from your statement.  if you were just venting and can't substantiate the statements thats ok

in particlar i was looking forward to the answer to "voluntarily joining"  alas it appears i'm gonna be disappointed yet again :rolleyes:

[Manedwolf]

You think way too highly of yourself csd. I didn't bother answering your questions because they're moronic and have no bearing on my simple statement.

The UAW is a largely criminal organization that used threats and shady dealing to get sweetheart deals. The people who benefit from those bad actions are no better than the higher ups who did it. They're Quislings of a sort, and as such I will cry no tears when they finally succeed in killing their golden goose. Oh wait, the fed.gov will waste billions of our tax dollars propping them up.... Again.

So no, I don't like the UAW or anyone who would be a part of it.

I think they should just give GM to UAW altogether. They can loot their own castle and perish in the ruins.

[Balog]

Every member of the UAW benefits from that orgs misdeeds. So no, I don't think the brush is too broad.

I'm sure they are mostly just folks. I already stated that once. But I'm sure a lot of the people who benefit from corrupt policritters making up jobs for their friends aren't horrible awful people either. Doesn't mean I want to support their profiting from the corrupt actions.