Strip-search of US girl illegal

[Strings]

I'm with RevDisk on this...

I've talked to parents whose children have been "violated" in one way or another. And I always ask them (incredulously), "Why aren't you taking action?"

And it saddens me that, quite often, they just reply with some form of "complaining wouldn't make any difference"... *headdesk*

[BridgeRunner]

Allow me to quote you to explain why it bothers me Bridgewalker.

Balog, get over yourself.  I am allowed to dislike the idea of homeschooling.  Even if you like homeschooling. 

I am even allowed to make a determination as to whether I want to homeschool or not without having spent a couple decades doing it.  That quote is utterly irrelevant. 

[RevDisk]

Balog, get over yourself.  I am allowed to dislike the idea of homeschooling.  Even if you like homeschooling. 

I am even allowed to make a determination as to whether I want to homeschool or not without having spent a couple decades doing it.  That quote is utterly irrelevant. 

You are indeed entitled to your opinion.  But you could make your points in a more polite and civil manner.

[BridgeRunner]

You are indeed entitled to your opinion.  But you could make your points in a more polite and civil manner.

I believe I did, until Balog decided to attack me repeatedly.

[Jamisjockey]

Enough.  Move on.

[RevDisk]

I believe I did, until Balog decided to attack me repeatedly.

Again, you are entitled to your beliefs.   But you still could have been more polite.

[seeker_two]

  mommy....daddy.....please don't fight..... 

[LadySmith]

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic...

I've talked to parents whose children have been "violated" in one way or another. And I always ask them (incredulously), "Why aren't you taking action?"

And it saddens me that, quite often, they just reply with some form of "complaining wouldn't make any difference"... *headdesk*

Therefore the misdeeds continue because parents like that do nothing to stop them. That is sad. 

I also agree with HankB:

Kids today have no backbone.

Parents today have no backbone.

[Stand_watie]

     This makes me think of and contrast an incident that occured in my (incredibly rural, parochial) school in jr. high. A girl in eighth grade had packed for a weekend at a friend's house, and brought a change of clothing, toothbrush, .22 caliber revolver, etc. with her to school, for the weekend. Our teacher, who was a no-nonsense type of lady, heard from someone that the girl had brought a gun to school. Confronted the girl (even though, as far as I know there was no "no-weapons" policy at the school) and confiscated the firearm until the end of the school day, and only was willing to give it back to the girl "in the care of" her friend's mother, that afternoon after school was over.

       Imagine that scenario today...would lead on Drudge.

[RevDisk]

I disagree with Hank.  Not every kid lacks backbone.  But look at the world they are inherienting.  They have never known an uncorrupt politician, an authority that did not view every citizen with hostility and suspicion, nor a future that looks other than bleak.   Ask any kid under 30 if they expect to ever see a dime of social security, of which they pay 14% of every paycheck.

As for parents, I don't know if I'm qualified to judge.  I have seen so few excellent parents, and so many broken families.

[Balog]

I don't care what you do with your kids. That's not relevant.

Your dismissal of "most people who homeschool" as whackjobs is what we're talking about.

[taurusowner]

I disagree with Hank.  Not every kid lacks backbone.  But look at the world they are inherienting.  They have never known an uncorrupt politician, an authority that did not view every citizen with hostility and suspicion, nor a future that looks other than bleak.   Ask any kid under 30 if they expect to ever see a dime of social security, of which they pay 14% of every paycheck.

As for parents, I don't know if I'm qualified to judge.  I have seen so few excellent parents, and so many broken families.

Well I think a lot of us expect to get back some Social Security.  That doesn't mean it will actually happen.  Still, there are some young people who really have faith in the government and BHO, to the point where if he says they'll be getting their check once a month, they really think they will.  As for myself, if there is still a United States the way we know it by the time I'm in the Social Security age bracket, I'll be impressed.

[Stand_watie]

For the record, I went to a most awesome private school starting mid Grade-9. It was one of these traditional institutions, started in 1863 as a Christian girls' school. It's still heavily Christian, and owned by the Scottish church. They have prayer and everything.

I'm curious about that. I thought you were Israeli? Are there Presbytarian schools in Israel that date to 1863?

[MicroBalrog]

There is one.

Tabeetha School, Jaffa. It is one of the oldest educational institutions still standing in the country. I believe it competes only with the Jesuit school in Jerusalem. I could be wrong.

[Stand_watie]

There is one.

Tabeetha School, Jaffa. It is one of the oldest educational institutions still standing in the country. I believe it competes only with the Jesuit school in Jerusalem. I could be wrong.

O.K. I'm glad that a Christian school in Jaffa treated you well enough that you have fond memories of your educational experience. I did not know that Christian  modern western "missionary"  ventures  in Israel dated that far back. I'd have guessed (if you asked me before I read your post) that circa 1920's or 1930's were earliest ventures of the type.

Off topic, but BTW, Presbytarian and Jesuit institutions in America are a minority but generally considered by the most "Genteel" class of Americans as preferred  parochial schools....

[Uncle Bubba]

So, in light of this, for the parents out there; what should you teach your children about dealing with the situation where school administrators tell them to remove their clothes? 

In my case, I had "the talk" with my oldest daughter about this when she started school, and we go over it again at the beginning of every school year. Her reply to all such requests and demands is to be "No. Call my parents or let me call them." If she isn't allowed to call and the school won't, she is to continue to refuse to cooperate. At some point her mother and I will be informed of the situation, and at that point there will be hell to pay.

[Jamisjockey]

Again, you are entitled to your beliefs.   But you still could have been more polite.

I don't care what you do with your kids. That's not relevant.

Your dismissal of "most people who homeschool" as whackjobs is what we're talking about.

Not sure what part of move on isn't being gotten.  Several of you weren't polite, get over it; continued ad hominem is just going to get the thread closed.

[Balog]

Sorry about that Jamis, I was (am) posting from my phone and replied to an older version of the thread I had loaded. I've taken it to pm.

Micro: are those non-Jewish institutions treated fairly by the .gov there? The way you describe your .gov it seems like they'd not be.

[Thor]

By law, guns are banned in schools. I can understand some repercussions for bringing a gun to school. However, was there an actual LAW passed that says a student can't bring OTC meds to school?? I don't know of one, but I could be wrong. Where does the school get off making it's own laws?? After all, it's the "PUBLIC School System". How can they enforce situations that are contrary to State and Federal Law?? Perhaps this attitude needs to be addressed. NO MORE NANNY STATISM !!!

[Jamisjockey]

By law, guns are banned in schools. I can understand some repercussions for bringing a gun to school. However, was there an actual LAW passed that says a student can't bring OTC meds to school?? I don't know of one, but I could be wrong. Where does the school get off making it's own laws?? After all, it's the "PUBLIC School System". How can they enforce situations that are contrary to State and Federal Law?? Perhaps this attitude needs to be addressed. NO MORE NANNY STATISM !!!

Its all a result of zero tolerance policies being tolerated.  School administrators aren't required to think.  Treating a kid the same for bringing Ibuprofen as another kid who brings meth is insanity.  Much the same as elementary kids being expelled for bringing a GIjoe toy gun, applying the same policy as if the kid brought his dad's class III in.

[RevDisk]

Its all a result of zero tolerance policies being tolerated.  School administrators aren't required to think.  Treating a kid the same for bringing Ibuprofen as another kid who brings meth is insanity.  Much the same as elementary kids being expelled for bringing a GIjoe toy gun, applying the same policy as if the kid brought his dad's class III in.

It was worse than that 10 years ago when I was in HS.  I heard of getting suspended for bringing in a metal butterknife in one's lunch. 

My favorite policy is the violence policy at every school I am familiar with.  Both parties are punished, and in most cases, punished equally.  If someone jumps on you, starts beating the every livin' heck out of you and you do absolutely nothing, you got suspended as well. 



Interestingly, this very policy was what lead me on a spiritual, moral and philosophically journey.  I was a pacifist as a kid.  I didn't so much disagree with violence on a moral level (that too), but mostly I thought it was an insanely inefficient means of resolving issues.  Mind you, I hit 6 by the time I was 14 or so, so my nickname was "the gentle giant".  You'd think size alone would deter bullies.  Quite the contrary, they thought it was hysterical to punch or kick someone literally twice their size who would not do anything in return.

So, one day a kid was assaulting me and it dawned on me that I was wrong.  Pacifist is the inefficient and immoral path, not violence.  In an instant, I changed my entire spiritual outlook and decided violence was the correct spiritual path. So I broke the kid's arm, two ribs, fractured his skull by ramming it into a cinder block wall repeatedly, and then threw him down a flight of concrete stairs.  Violent, sure.  But one act of concentrated violence stopped every future act of violence.  Viola, efficiency.   My philosophy changed to NEVER attack first, but always reply to an attack with overwhelming and extremely disportional violence in order to stop future violence.  It has served me quite well in my career and life thus far. 

Had it not been for the Lord of the Flies environment fostered by public school policies, I would be a less moral and philosophical person than I am today.   

[HankB]

My favorite policy is the violence policy at every school I am familiar with.  Both parties are punished, and in most cases, punished equally.  If someone jumps on you, starts beating the every livin' heck out of you and you do absolutely nothing, you got suspended as well.

Sounds like you can get rid of the principal by jumping him and beating the ever livin' heck out of him. You may get suspended, but he will, too, right?

[RevDisk]

Sounds like you can get rid of the principal by jumping him and beating the ever livin' heck out of him. You may get suspended, but he will, too, right?

Teachers aren't afforded completely self-defense either.  They can indeed get in trouble if they physically restraint or fight back against a violent student.   

[MicroBalrog]

Revdisk, this sounds horribly like what Israeli schools have become. Though the government is planning to reform make them worse.

[Uncle Bubba]

It was worse than that 10 years ago when I was in HS.  I heard of getting suspended for bringing in a metal butterknife in one's lunch. 

My favorite policy is the violence policy at every school I am familiar with.  Both parties are punished, and in most cases, punished equally.  If someone jumps on you, starts beating the every livin' heck out of you and you do absolutely nothing, you got suspended as well. 



Interestingly, this very policy was what lead me on a spiritual, moral and philosophically journey.  I was a pacifist as a kid.  I didn't so much disagree with violence on a moral level (that too), but mostly I thought it was an insanely inefficient means of resolving issues.  Mind you, I hit 6 by the time I was 14 or so, so my nickname was "the gentle giant".  You'd think size alone would deter bullies.  Quite the contrary, they thought it was hysterical to punch or kick someone literally twice their size who would not do anything in return.

So, one day a kid was assaulting me and it dawned on me that I was wrong.  Pacifist is the inefficient and immoral path, not violence.  In an instant, I changed my entire spiritual outlook and decided violence was the correct spiritual path. So I broke the kid's arm, two ribs, fractured his skull by ramming it into a cinder block wall repeatedly, and then threw him down a flight of concrete stairs.  Violent, sure.  But one act of concentrated violence stopped every future act of violence.  Viola, efficiency.   My philosophy changed to NEVER attack first, but always reply to an attack with overwhelming and extremely disportional violence in order to stop future violence.  It has served me quite well in my career and life thus far. 

Had it not been for the Lord of the Flies environment fostered by public school policies, I would be a less moral and philosophical person than I am today.

I wasn't a pacifist, I just didn't want to be messed with at school ( I had plenty enough mental and physical abuse at home, I just wanted a respite from it somewhere), and being bigger than most others from 7th grade on, I was afraid that if I reacted too strongly I would really hurt someone. Consequently, like you, I got picked on and messed with mercilessly. Until early in 10th grade when I'd finally had enough and beat the hell out of a kid who sucker-punched me in the hallway during class change. Not to the extent you did yours but I got the point across nonetheless. The remainder of my school years were peaceful. Would that home had been, too.

...always reply to an attack with overwhelming and extremely dis[pro]portional violence in order to stop future violence.

That applies from personal matters all the way up the ladder to international affairs. To put it in the vernacular of my Southern upbringing, "Mess with me, and you've bought the whole can of whoop-ass." I have tried for years to explain that to more than one person, and especially for several recent years to two Web-friends of mine who live in the UK. To them, and to too many others, "proportional response" is the only moral use of strength and violence. Unfortunately for that point of view, proportional response is considered by barbarians to be weakness. They act and react accordingly and the cycle continues, when it doesn't have to.