Author Topic: Grrrrrr. A helmet law in AL (Read 13158 times)

Monkeyleg · « **on:** August 22, 2009, 11:41:29 PM »

So, my wife and I spent the last week checking out Jonesboro, AR, Huntsville and Decatur, AL, and Knoxville, TN, as well as other areas in between. This weeklong tour followed months of researching the areas online.

This morning we got on the interstate to head back home to Milwaukee. I noticed some motorcyclists, then noticed they were all wearing helmets. Every rider I could see was wearing a bucket. Same thing in TN.

I expect helmet laws in nanny states. But Alabama and Tennessee? It's especially galling considering the high temps and humidity in the summer.

Looks like I'll have to join another crusade once we're moved.

Grrrrrrrrrr.

freedom lover · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:17:00 AM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on August 22, 2009, 11:41:29 PM

This morning we got on the interstate to head back home to Milwaukee. I noticed some motorcyclists, then noticed they were all wearing helmets. Every rider I could see was wearing a bucket. Same thing in TN.

Maybe they just value their lives. subjective and inflammatory comment deleted

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:21:19 AM »

State by state helmet laws
http://www.usff.com/hldl/frames/50state.html

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:24:08 AM »

Quote from: freedom lover on August 23, 2009, 12:17:00 AM

Maybe they just value their lives. I doubt most motorcycle riders in states without helmet laws are stupid enough not to.

Interesting statement for a guy with the handle of "freedom lover".
So I guess if someone enjoys a freedom that you disagree with then they are stupid?
I suggest you educate yourself on the issue before you start calling your fellow forum members stupid.

freedom lover · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:38:44 AM »

Quote from: RoadKingLarry on August 23, 2009, 12:24:08 AM

Interesting statement for a guy with the handle of "freedom lover".
So I guess if someone enjoys a freedom that you disagree with then they are stupid?

The hell? I wasn't calling the freedom stupid, just the action. I meant the word "maybe" to be understood as implying that they were doing it out of choice, not because of a law. I'm surprised you didn't get that.

Quote

I suggest you educate yourself on the issue before you start calling your fellow forum members stupid.

1) I doubt Monkeyleg is stupid.

2) How am I to know if he rides motorcycles or not? I would think he opposes helmet laws on principle.

3) Why the hell would any smart person ride without a helmet?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:45:12 AM »

you ride? try it then give an informed opinion. i wear a helmet even in states where i don't have to. its a choice there. as it should be. funny thing back in the late 70's i got a ticket driving wifes corrolla without taking off my bike helmet when i picked it up. i was in a hurry to get somewhere and just didn't stop to take it off. the rationale for the ticket was the helmet would impede my hearing and peripheral vision, i started laughing. heck when the same reasons are used to explain not wanting to wear a hemet on my bike they are dismissed as specious.

freedom lover · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:50:49 AM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 23, 2009, 12:45:12 AM

you ride? try it then give an informed opinion.

I may do that someday, though I'd start on dirt to see if I have what it takes before buying something expensive.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:51:34 AM »

thats a very smart way to learn smart and safer

zahc · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:57:27 AM »

Quote

3) Why the hell would any smart person ride without a helmet?

Probably because they want to. Why the hell would any smart person ride a motorcycle? Probably because they want to.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2009, 01:00:09 AM »

and heck you aren't required to be smart to vote have kids or drive

Chuck Dye · « **Reply #10 on:** August 23, 2009, 01:09:02 AM »

While recognizing it will never happen except in a Heinleinian fantasy, I have often thought that helmets and seat belts should be optional with the proviso that those who opt out are also opting out of public assistance should their choice prove wrong. A bit of an extra selective factor in the scheme of social Darwinism. (Is your insurance adequate to the task and paid up?

)

On the seat belt side there is the problem that many vehicles, particularly the eighteen wheelers I drive, become very difficult to control on rough ground if the drive cannot stay in the driver's seat because he or she is not belted in. While an unhelmeted biker poses no threat to others on the road, an unbelted driver may. Given that I am alive to type this only because seat belts have twice prevented my nearly certain death, I will continue to use them and will not fight against laws requiring their use.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2009, 01:27:37 AM »

I had hoped that this wouldn't immediately devolve into a discussion about the virtues of wearing helmets or seat belts or not smoking or drinking or eating red meat or deep fried foods or fatty foods or having unprotected sex or having sex at all to doing anything that could potentially harm a person. (How's that for a run-on sentence?)

I'm just surprised that a state like AL would have a helmet law. Years ago I was shocked to find that Nevada had a helmet law. It just doesn't fit with the independent, conservative images of these states.

As for riding without a helmet being stupid, it is. It's also stupid to ride a motorcycle, considering the effects of being struck by a 3,000+ pound car or crashing into a tree. It's much smarter to drive a car with front and side air bags. It's even smarter to stay home and not risk a collision at all.

I'd just like to get one of the legiscritters who write these helmet laws to sit in heavy traffic in humid 90+ degree heat wearing a helmet, with no option to remove it.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2009, 01:54:14 AM »

lots of times these type laws get pushed through on the heels of a tragedy that personalizes it for the legislators. one of their kids gets hurt. we had, might still have, a law in va where selling one qualude could get you 35 years. someones kid got killed while luded all the other legislators go to kids funeral and a law with disproportionate penalties gets rammed through

Nitrogen · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2009, 02:08:42 AM »

I'm not a "free market cures all" kinda guy, but I think in this case it might.

If life+health insurance companies denied benifits to someone not wearing a helmet, I bet it'd change a lot of behaviors.

Then again, many MC riders would probably push for a law to ban the practice...

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:43:53 AM »

Quote

Given that I am alive to type this only because seat belts have twice prevented my nearly certain death, I will continue to use them and will not fight against laws requiring their use.

There are many, many problems with seatbelt laws which I will not address here, except as to say that they may be nice in theory, but in practice they're problematic.

As for the Heinleinian fantasy, life without seatbelt laws is possible - after all, there existed an age before these laws, and some states still don't have them. I don't see why there can't be a time after.

Blakenzy · « **Reply #15 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:25:53 AM »

I am all for personal freedom and small government, but in today's world, if a moron goes and seriously hurts himself due to lack of proper equipment, anyone around the event chances getting sucked into the legal whirlwind, sued and losing their homes in the process. I'd rather the law force those morons to be padded up, strapped in or whatever and diminish the liability for the rest.

Ex-MA Hole · « **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2009, 06:12:57 AM »

I love NH....so seat belt law, no helmet law....ah, a free country...

Bear in mind, I wear my belt at ALL times, but because, in my opinion, it's the smart thing to do.

I don't ride, so I can't comment.

Freedom, I cherish the day when you can make one post that doesn't wreak of youthful ignorance, a pampered life, and something resembling an intelligent, well thought out post. Oh, and doesn't attack those that disagree with your views.

Standing Wolf · « **Reply #17 on:** August 23, 2009, 06:44:36 AM »

Quote

I had hoped that this wouldn't immediately devolve into a discussion about the virtues of wearing helmets or seat belts or not smoking or drinking or eating red meat or deep fried foods or fatty foods or having unprotected sex or having sex at all to doing anything that could potentially harm a person.

Well, yeah, but haven't all those been redefined as public health problems in dire need of government intervention?

Quote

I am all for personal freedom and small government, but in today's world, if a moron goes and seriously hurts himself due to lack of proper equipment, anyone around the event chances getting sucked into the legal whirlwind, sued and losing their homes in the process. I'd rather the law force those morons to be padded up, strapped in or whatever and diminish the liability for the rest.

No, you're not "for personal freedom and small government:" you're for living in fear of lawyers and law suits.

Cromlech · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:34:50 AM »

I wouldn't push my opinion on someone else but I do think that riding a motorcycle on main roads without a helmet is just asking for it.
Then again, it's the law here and I am used to all my biker mates wearing them happily, especially what with the occasional bit of mud and diesel on some of the roads round here.

lupinus · « **Reply #19 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:09:12 AM »

Helmet and seat belt laws are indeed assinine. If a person wishes to not use them, it should be their choice alone.

AmbulanceDriver · « **Reply #20 on:** August 23, 2009, 10:59:12 AM »

Alright. I'm gonna wade into this one....

I'm not a rider, so I can't speak from firsthand experience as regards to the discomfort of a helmet on a hot muggy day in heavy traffic. However, I have worn helmets in the past, on go-carts, off roading, etc. So I can imagine that in heavy traffic, sucking someone's too-rich exhaust, on a hot muggy day, those things have to be a royal pain in the butt. Especially if you commute on your motorcycle.

Now, I have been on scenes of motorcycle accidents. With and without helmets/other protective gear. Personally, I would never ride a motorcycle in traffic without at least a full face helmet and probably leathers and good stout boots.

However, seatbelt and helmet laws reek of nanny-stateism. Personally, I think that it's your choice whether you ride with or without either... BUT. You had better be sure that you can afford to pay for not only emergency care, but possibly long term care, as well as sufficient disability insurance to provide for your family if you turn into a vegetable after wiping out without a helmet. Because I've seen that one. Primary income earner gets seriously injured, ends up in a vegetative state. Insurance pays up to the max of their requirements for coverage, which doesn't even cover the ICU stay. Family is financially wiped out, and they end up turning to the state for help. Would a helmet have prevented it from happening? Impossible to know for sure, but it sure would have improved the odds.

Oh, and these?

There's a reason we call these "brain-buckets".

MillCreek · « **Reply #21 on:** August 23, 2009, 11:05:19 AM »

I have been a bicyclist for 38 years and a motorcyclist for 20. As far as I can remember, Washington has always had helmet laws. My thoughts on the matter have no doubt been colored by my experience as a paramedic. Even if it was not mandatory, I would still wear helmets on all the two-wheel vehicles. For the same reason that I wear high-viz: to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible.

I am neutral as to if there should be mandatory laws on the subject. In Washington, one of the big 'selling points' was to reduce public health costs in welfare expenditures on persons sustaining a serious head injury from not wearing a helmet. I have not looked for any recent data to see if substantial savings have been realized. There are anecdotal comments that the number of available organ donors have decreased with the rise of mandatory motorcycle helmet laws.

I myself don't ride the motorcycles when it gets over 90 degrees since wearing all my armored gear and helmet just gets too hot. This is especially true on my maxi-scooter for work commuting, since I am wearing a suit under all the gear.

Waitone · « **Reply #22 on:** August 23, 2009, 11:16:19 AM »

SC famously (and perhaps stupidly) has no helmet laws.

I've thought the simple way to handle the problem is to let insurance companies write two level policies. One line of coverage when a helmet is used and a different line when no helmet is used.

Firethorn · « **Reply #23 on:** August 23, 2009, 11:18:48 AM »

I wear a full face with my cruiser. First, I'm just getting out of my first year of riding. Second, with my glasses I want the visor.

Oh, and the safety class impressed upon me the difference between DOT certification and SNELL certification.

I'm now the alternate motorcycle safety rep for my unit. Why do we have motorcycle safety reps at all? Because it's the leading cause of motor vehicle deaths in the military, and motor vehicles are the leading cause of death period. I've seen pictures of accidents where the driver's use of a helmet didn't save him, but I've also seen more where one would have. The guy who rammed the back of a trailer doing an estimated 150mph, not so much. The guy who hit a pothole - probably would have converted a funeral into a short hospital stay.

Waitone - the only problem with that is that you might find that non-helmet policies that don't cover funeral might actually be cheaper than the helmet ones. One of the big things about anti-smoking laws is that despite all the expenses of caring for smokers, non-smokers end up living so much longer on average their medical expenses are actually higher over their life.

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 23, 2009, 11:19:48 AM »

I never ride my Harley sans helmet.

Of course, the military always made sure I rode with a helmet, so I am a tad biased.

If I wreck seriously enough, I'm sure it'll be a good place to get a dental ID or DNA sample, but I also never drive without my seatbelt.

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I had hoped that this wouldn't immediately devolve into a discussion about the virtues of wearing helmets or seat belts

Just looking at the thread title and the tone of the OP, I knew that was going to happen, no matter what. I know I was born at night, but not last night.

Throw in a post or three from our resident humor-challenged high school icon, and away we go...

It's an emotionally-charged issue, that much is for certain.

Let's keep the discussion on an even keel, regardless.

Attack the argument, but not the arguer, ok?

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Author Topic: Grrrrrr. A helmet law in AL (Read 13158 times)