Grrrrrr. A helmet law in AL

[brimic]

I wear a helmet always by choice, I don't have to, but I prefer to.

There is a lot of talk on this thread about penalizing motorcylists for not wearing helmets, unfortunately it leaves the behavior of the cagers on the road out of the equation. Should the person on the cycle be penalized for not wearing a helmet when the guy int he SUV is driving 2' off the back wheel of the cyclist at 75 MPH? What about the woman who is drinking her frappchino, yapping on the cell phone and swerving over the divider lines? How about the guy who makes a left turn or pulls away from the curb in front of you and didn't bother looking first? All of these situations could cause an accident with a 4-wheel vehicle as well, but the cause has little to do with helmets/seatbelts and everything to do with aggressive or inattentive drivers.

[mtnbkr]

I wear a helmet always by choice, I don't have to, but I prefer to.

There is a lot of talk on this thread about penalizing motorcylists for not wearing helmets, unfortunately it leaves the behavior of the cagers on the road out of the equation. Should the person on the cycle be penalized for not wearing a helmet when the guy int he SUV is driving 2' off the back wheel of the cyclist at 75 MPH? What about the woman who is drinking her frappchino, yapping on the cell phone and swerving over the divider lines? How about the guy who makes a left turn or pulls away from the curb in front of you and didn't bother looking first? All of these situations could cause an accident with a 4-wheel vehicle as well, but the cause has little to do with helmets/seatbelts and everything to do with aggressive or inattentive drivers.

Don't forget the biker who is lane splitting, weaving in and out of traffic, doing stunts, and tailgating "cagers"?  I've seen all of those behaviors on I66 during rush hour in Northern Virginia.

Chris

[brimic]

Don't forget the biker who is lane splitting, weaving in and out of traffic, doing stunts, and tailgating "cagers"?  I've seen all of those behaviors on I66 during rush hour in Northern Virginia.

Ayup. I've seen some really idiotic crap on 2 wheels as well. Cutting people off in multiple lane changes, wheelies on the freeway, weaving through traffic at 110 mph,tailgating, etc. The difference is that the Darwin is far more likely to claim one of these monkeys than anyone they might get in an accident with.

[Monkeyleg]

You may see idiots on bikes, but that's anecdotal evidence to support any mandatory helmet laws. More than 75% of motorcycle accidents are the fault of automobile drivers. If we're going to mandate helmet laws, how about mandatory prison sentences for automobile drivers who cause motorcycle accidents? Why punish the victims and let the perps go free?

I've seen some really stupid riders, but I've seen and dodged far more idiotic car drivers. (When I know the situation is back in my control, I sometimes like to continue approaching their vehicles with a look of terror on my face as though I'm going to crash into them. It really scares the crap out of them).

[mtnbkr]

Who said anything about passing a helmet law because of stupid riders? 

And it isn't just stupid riders, it's riders doing stunts and other crap that would have an automobile driver staring down the barrel of a gun if caught.

I've seen some really stupid riders, but I've seen and dodged far more idiotic car drivers.

Simple numbers issue.  There are far more automobiles than bikes on the highways.

At the end of the day, I don't care if a motorcyclist wears a helmet or not, but I do care about drivers and riders doing stupid things that could hurt my family.  Stunting and lane splitting (I'm looking for you in the other lane, not 3" from my side) are hardly careful and controlled operation.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

(When I know the situation is back in my control, I sometimes like to continue approaching their vehicles with a look of terror on my face as though I'm going to crash into them. It really scares the crap out of them).

Except the situation is never in your control (or mine for that matter).  There are always variables you can't control and your little stunt could cause that scared driver to do something unexpected.

Maybe it's having kids, or being the primary earner, or living in NoVa where traffic is a nightmare, but I go out of my way to avoid dangerous drivers/riders when I see them.  I'll leave the lesson teaching to those with less to lose.

Chris

[zahc]

There is nothing dangerous about lane splitting. Lots of studies show that it's safer for everyone.

[Gewehr98]

And that's why it's only legal in Kalifornia.  (At the behest of the CHP, who wanted the capability for their motorcycle cops...)

[zahc]

Ok, nobody knows if it's actually safer. I just think it is, personally.

[mtnbkr]

There is nothing dangerous about lane splitting. Lots of studies show that it's safer for everyone.

Yeah, it's safer to find a motorcycle 3" off your side or between two vehicles rather than in the lane where you'd expect to find your fellow travelers.

Of course, if a motorcyclist gets squished between two cars while lane splitting, it's obviously the fault of the drivers who didn't endeavor to create a third lane out of two.

Chris

[freedom lover]

Freedom, I cherish the day when you can make one post that doesn't wreak of youthful ignorance, a pampered life, and something resembling an intelligent, well thought out post.  Oh, and doesn't attack those that disagree with your views.

1) My life has not been pampered.
2) I believe that many of my posts are intelligent and well thought out.
3) I didn't attack Monkeyleg or his views. I was suggesting that the riders he saw may have simply been safety conscious. I'm not against repealing helmet laws.

And that's why it's only legal in Kalifornia.  (At the behest of the CHP, who wanted the capability for their motorcycle cops...)

It's legal in New York. 

[MicroBalrog]

Freedom, I cherish the day when you can make one post that doesn't wreak of youthful ignorance, a pampered life, and something resembling an intelligent, well thought out post.  Oh, and doesn't attack those that disagree with your views.

Many of Freedom Lover's posts are intelligent and well thought-out, although often he does come out a bit... unfriendly.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It's legal in New York. 


source?  don't look here

Section 1252 of the New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law:

§ 1252. Operating motorcycles on roadways laned for traffic.
(a) All motorcycles are entitled to full use of a lane and no motor vehicle or motorcycle shall be driven in such a manner as to deprive any motorcycle of the full use of a lane. However, this subsection shall not be construed to prevent motorcycles from being operated two abreast in a single lane.
(b) The operator of a motorcycle shall not overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken.
(c) No person shall operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.
(d) Motorcycles shall not be operated more than two abreast in a single lane.
(e) Subsections (b) and (c) shall not apply to police officers in the performance of their official duties.

[freedom lover]

All motorcycles are entitled to full use of a lane and no motor vehicle or motorcycle shall be driven in such a manner as to deprive any motorcycle of the full use of a lane. However, this subsection shall not be construed to prevent motorcycles from being operated two abreast in a single lane.

I know this sounds weird. It seems it would prohibit someone from pulling next to a motorcycle that was in the middle of a lane.

However it also says "this subsection shall not be construed to prevent motorcycles from being operated two abreast in a single lane." Isn't that the definition of lane splitting? The NY drivers manual specifically says that is allowed.   

[Gewehr98]

Two motorcycles side-by-side, yes.

Car and motorcycle, or motorcycle between two cars in adjacent lanes, no.

I just knew true lane-splitting was legal in California, since I rode motorcycle there for about 10 years, and a CHP buddy of mine explained the reasoning.  YMMV in other states, obviously.

[MicroBalrog]

There are indeed studies that claim lane-splitting is safer. In some (civilized) countries it is legal, in others it is not. I have not the slightest clue who is right, but there is definitely a room for a valid difference of opinion on this.

[Gewehr98]

but there is definitely a room for a valid difference of opinion on this.

A room, eh?

A padded room?

MB reminds me of the Israeli Mossad agent (Ziva) on NCIS.   

[Firethorn]

I don't own a motorcycle (yet), but when I do, bet your ass I will be wearing full face helmet and good protective clothing. I managed to go down once when I was riding my moped. Got a few scrapes from that one...

Having managed to have 4 semi-serious accidents on my bicycle as a teenager, I hope I have those out of the way.  By semi-serious:

1.  Trip to doctor's for stiches to my forehead.  Bicycle helmet would have prevented.  Due to hard head, otherwise fine.
2.  Ambulance response, followed by trip to doctor's for stitches.  Stiches(this time) in area helmet would not of prevented, but cup might have.  
3.  Ruined new jeans.  Hard to feel sorry for them, while picturing if it had been my skin.  Parents agree
4.  Ruined clothing, used helmet.  Hole worn through protective shell.  Really, Really glad wearing helmet.

Yeah, I'm wearing a helmet and other protective equipment on my motorcycle.

On the other hand, I have to agree that I don't want to see laws mandating it.  Perhaps something about insurance rates, but I haven't seen any discounts for helmet use.

[mtnbkr]

I can't for the life of me understand how putting an exposed rider on a motorcycle in a narrow space between two cars is safer than giving that same rider an entire lane.  As a cyclist (pedals, not engine), I do not like being confined in that manner.

Chris

[Monkeyleg]

I've split lanes a few times when I was in heavy traffic in hot weather and in mandatory helmet states. I've had auto drivers move to obstruct me, or open their doors. You have to be really vigilant.

Once I rode a section of highway in SE Colorado that another rider had recommended. The highway was two lanes in each direction, and wound gracefully up the mountain. Unfortunately there was a constant parade of RV's crawling up the slope. Finally I got frustrated and got on the double yellow and took the turns at a good speed. It worked fine, but scared the hell out of the RV drivers. I don't think the AMA recommends that kind of lane splitting.

[MillCreek]

I can't for the life of me understand how putting an exposed rider on a motorcycle in a narrow space between two cars is safer than giving that same rider an entire lane.  As a cyclist (pedals, not engine), I do not like being confined in that manner.

Chris

+ eleventy billion to this, speaking as a driver, bicyclist and motorcyclist.  Perhaps if I was in a jurisdiction in which I was familiar with lane-splitting, I would have a higher comfort level with it.

PS: it gives me the heebie-jeebies enough to be riding my road bicycle adjacent to a line of parked cars.  I like to keep at least three feet away to avoid being hit by an opened door, but sometimes traffic does not permit this. 

[roo_ster]

+ eleventy billion to this, speaking as a driver, bicyclist and motorcyclist.  Perhaps if I was in a jurisdiction in which I was familiar with lane-splitting, I would have a higher comfort level with it.

PS: it gives me the heebie-jeebies enough to be riding my road bicycle adjacent to a line of parked cars.  I like to keep at least three feet away to avoid being hit by an opened door, but sometimes traffic does not permit this. 

I am not a bit shy about taking the lane & riding smack down the middle.  I might get mike foxtrotted by drivers behind me, but I avoid the mess described above.