You cannot exercise your way out of obesity

[mtnbkr]

That is true, but a couple things conspire against them that is not their fault.

1.  Some people have slow metabolisms and don't realize just how far they have to cut calories to lose weight in a reasonable fashion.
2.  There are a surprising amount of calories in prepared foods.  Restaurant nutrition tables are shocking (really, that side of green beans has 500 calories because you drench it in butter and cheese?).  Eating healthy at a restaurant can be expensive, frustrating, and very unfulfilling.  It plain sucks and that's when you can get the data you need.

Dieting (or just eating right) is tiring, expensive, and annoying.  It takes a lot of diligence to do it right.

Chris

[brimic]

I blame it all on gluten.
Those 15 mini snickers bars that I ate out of the community dish in the lunch room today were packed full of gluten.

[KD5NRH]

Stocky, I don't mind.  I don't have to have six pack abs.  I just want the gut flattened out.

[lupinus]

Consider all the people who attempt to lose weight and fails. If weight loss = burning more calories than you consume, then failing at losing weight = your fault. Now imagine some of the more creative excuses - "genetics made me this way", "big boned", "thyroid issues", "PCOS" etc...then your failure to lose weight is not really your fault, is it? And yes, I've seen people "arguing" that calories out exceeding calories in will not lead to weight loss.

There is some validity to those things, because they monkey with the math and can throw a wrench into what your body does with those calories. I've seen it happen and its damned impressive at times. Of course, like so many excuses, they're often just that and only that, an excuse that muddies when its a legitimate case.

[KD5NRH]

Some people have slow metabolisms and don't realize just how far they have to cut calories to lose weight in a reasonable fashion.

Which is where exercise comes in; your body will make the adjustment, but you're going to have to work yourself to true exhaustion (not just "I can barely make it into Starbucks for my next latte" but "I can't walk a straight line or speak my full name without pausing for breath") a few times a week to get your systems to say "hey, we gotta crank up the refinery a bit more to keep the engine going right."  The ones who power walk while chatting on the phone are just wasting time.

[Nick1911]

That is true, but a couple things conspire against them that is not their fault.

1.  Some people have slow metabolisms and don't realize just how far they have to cut calories to lose weight in a reasonable fashion.
2.  There are a surprising amount of calories in prepared foods.  Restaurant nutrition tables are shocking (really, that side of green beans has 500 calories because you drench it in butter and cheese?).  Eating healthy at a restaurant can be expensive, frustrating, and very unfulfilling.  It plain sucks and that's when you can get the data you need.

Dieting (or just eating right) is tiring, expensive, and annoying.  It takes a lot of diligence to do it right.

Chris

How is dieting more expensive? 

[mtnbkr]

How is dieting more expensive? 

When eating out.

Lower calorie entrees tend to be more expensive and/or much smaller. 

Even when eating at home, eating "properly" can cost more than eating junk unless you're existing on a diet of beans.

Chris

[MechAg94]

Which is where exercise comes in; your body will make the adjustment, but you're going to have to work yourself to true exhaustion (not just "I can barely make it into Starbucks for my next latte" but "I can't walk a straight line or speak my full name without pausing for breath") a few times a week to get your systems to say "hey, we gotta crank up the refinery a bit more to keep the engine going right."  The ones who power walk while chatting on the phone are just wasting time.

Exercise can play a role in metabolism.  There is a metabolic effect for hours after exercise, but I think it varies.  Also, more muscle burns more calories.  I don't say that negates the other stuff.  I would also say that if you are exercising and just getting out more, you might be eating and snacking less overall.  

[mtnbkr]

Which is where exercise comes in; your body will make the adjustment, but you're going to have to work yourself to true exhaustion (not just "I can barely make it into Starbucks for my next latte" but "I can't walk a straight line or speak my full name without pausing for breath") a few times a week to get your systems to say "hey, we gotta crank up the refinery a bit more to keep the engine going right."  The ones who power walk while chatting on the phone are just wasting time.

Take a look at calories burned for given levels of activity.  The ones power walking while on the phone aren't doing as poorly as you suspect.  Actually, on the same terrain, walking and running burn similar amounts of calories unless you get up to the sprinting level.  What you get exercising to exhaustion like you suggest is muscle and cardiovascular improvements.  Optimum calorie burning takes place at a much lower effort.

Chris

[MechAg94]

When eating out.

Lower calorie entrees tend to be more expensive and/or much smaller.  

Even when eating at home, eating "properly" can cost more than eating junk unless you're existing on a diet of beans.

Chris

But eating "right" and eating less unhealthy are not always the same thing.  Avoiding the burger and large fries to make a sandwich with chips at home is likely cheaper, better for you, and has fewer calories.  It wouldn't surprise me if a couple eggs and toast made at home is a lot better than a greasy breakfast sandwich and hashbrowns at McDonalds even with bacon.  

I guess it depends on what exactly the current diet is.

[mtnbkr]

I wasn't talking about McDonald's or eating simple fare.  I'm talking about going to "nicer" restaurants or trying to have variety at home.  Also, I'm trying to avoid starches (pre-pre-diabetic, so I need to avoid starch, sugar, etc), so potatoes, white flours, pasta, etc are to be limited.  "Lite" menus at many restaurants tend to be more money for minor improvements in caloric or nutritional content.

For example, if we go to Red Robin, I get a turkey burger with beans instead of a bacon cheeseburger with fries (bottomless!).  It's a fairly significant improvement nutritionally and categorically, but cost more money.  At least in this case, it tastes good.  If we go to IHOP, the "lite" menu blows.  The food is bland, the portions tiny, and the cost as much or more than the mondo-omelet with short stack of pancakes.  Go a few steps up to places like Firebirds and it doesn't get any better. 

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Oh, fwiw, today I had:

Breakfast:
Bowl of Cheerios with milk: 200cal

Mid-Morning Snack:
Banana: 100cal

Lunch:
Carrots, triscuits, and Hummus: 350cal est
1/2 cup of creamy tomato soup with Triscuits: 300cal est

Dinner (not yet enjoyed):
Same hummus, chicken, and spinach salad as the night before.
270cal

Don't have the exact calorie count, but I'm around 1220 for the day. 

Chris

[cordex]

How often do you eat out, Chris?  It's rare enough for me that I can afford to not fret so much over it being higher calorie.  Also, 1220 calories in a day for an active, healthy male doesn't strike me as sustainable.

The root issue is that most people believe they burn more in exercise than they do.

Doesn't help that:
1. Food packaging is notoriously low on calorie figures.
2. Exercise equipment is notoriously optimistic on burned calories.

[mtnbkr]

How often do you eat out, Chris?  It's rare enough for me that I can afford to not fret so much over it being higher calorie.  

It varies, but probably 1-2x a week, but can spike up to 2-3x.  I tend to pack leftovers for lunch, so I don't eat out while at work, but we eat out more often than we should.

Also, 1220 calories in a day for an active, healthy male doesn't strike me as sustainable.

It wasn't my plan today, but it's more sustainable than you think.  I did it for 6 months and wasn't hungry once I got past the first month.  I only stopped eating like that to maintain my weight once I got where I wanted.  I didn't gain weight until years later when I started a new, much more stressful job, and stopped exercising as much.  

As for today, the portions weren't small, just mostly vegetable.  That salad is pretty big for the caloric count.

Doesn't help that:
1. Food packaging is notoriously low on calorie figures.
2. Exercise equipment is notoriously optimistic on burned calories.

Yup and yup.

Chris

[brimic]

Oh, fwiw, today I had:

Breakfast:
Bowl of Cheerios with milk: 200cal

Mid-Morning Snack:
Banana: 100cal

Lunch:
Carrots, triscuits, and Hummus: 350cal est
1/2 cup of creamy tomato soup with Triscuits: 300cal est

Dinner (not yet enjoyed):
Same hummus, chicken, and spinach salad as the night before.
270cal

Don't have the exact calorie count, but I'm around 1220 for the day. 

Chris

<---fat guy
For the love of God, get some bacon into that diet.
If you are going to have a few extra nagging pounds on your frame, might as well enjoy them 

[brimic]

In all seriousness, a local AM talk show guy did a quick review on a book that's supposedly coming out or in the works...
It had to do with some researcher who thinks current obesity trends have a lot to do with artificial sweeteners and food tasting bland.
Something about how your body craves certain natural flavors at different times due to certain deficiencies or needs, but most of our foods are garbage dressed up to taste like something they are not.

[mtnbkr]

<---fat guy
For the love of God, get some bacon into that diet.
If you are going to have a few extra nagging pounds on your frame, might as well enjoy them 

Trust me, I can put away some food and I love bacon.  Today was lighter than usual. :)

Chris

[mtnbkr]

In all seriousness, a local AM talk show guy did a quick review on a book that's supposedly coming out or in the works...
It had to do with some researcher who thinks current obesity trends have a lot to do with artificial sweeteners and food tasting bland.
Something about how your body craves certain natural flavors at different times due to certain deficiencies or needs, but most of our foods are garbage dressed up to taste like something they are not.

Seems plausible, especially when so many of the ways they add flavor to otherwise bland food is with fat and sugar (ie calories).  Seriously, at one restaurant, I could NOT find a side vegetable that didn't have 200+ calories because of all the butter and all.

Chris

[MechAg94]

I guess I am on a different track.  Potatoes of one kind or another are a common weakness talking to my brothers and cousins. 

[AJ Dual]

Saying it's ALL "Calories in and calories out" does have it's limits.

You eat 5000 calories a day in fat and protein with zero carb content... you'll be a concentration camp scarecrow inside of a year. In theory you can make sugars out of non-carbohydrate food stocks, almost all living things on earth can through gluconeogenesis and some of the sugars might get converted to triglycerides/fats for storage... and your liver is going to eventually give up on glycogenolysis after roughly 72 hours of such a diet, switching over to ketone bodies instead.

But your GI tract isn't going to come anywhere near to absorbing all 5000 calories of fat and protein. You're going to poop a lot of it out. And your insulin response is going to grind to a halt as well. And instead lipolysis is going to start up as your body starts attacking fat/lipids to break them up into glyerol sugar-alcohols. And even if you're getting 100% of the lipid calories from dietary fat intake, you're likely to activate the lipase enzymes in your own fat stores which will break them down whether from a caloric intake standpoint you need them or not.

I'm not advocating anyone actually TRY a no-carb diet that extreme, but it AIN'T the fat and protein that's making Americans fat. HFCS, corn, bleached wheat, potatoes, rice, and to a lesser degree sucrose* is doing it.

And enough sucrose to actually make you fat is simply unpleasant or downright uncomfortable to eat. The osmotic pressure on your mouth and stomach from that much sucrose, crystalline, or in suspension is going to make it kind of "burn" just like salt, whereas HFCS is "smooth" and you can just keep gulping it for hours, even if your pancreas started screaming "Uncle!" a long time ago. 

The Inuit's with their wintertime diet consisting of almost solely meats caught through fishing/hunting, and other tribal people who's diet was almost all subsistence meat-hunting were thought to be the exception to this, however it turns out they get/got a fair amount of dietary glycogen from eating organ meats of the animals that we normally pass up, and that they actually traded meat and fish to other peoples for plant-based foods. And conversely, many Native north and south American peoples suffer obesity and diabetes at rates even higher than Euro-Americans when they eat a diet high in processed refined carbohydrates.

[mtnbkr]

Saying it's ALL "Calories in and calories out" does have it's limits.

True, but the realities of a Western diet make it true for most of us.  It's damn hard to avoid carbs unless you prepare everything yourself and never eat out, never eat prepared foods, etc. 

Chris

[KD5NRH]

What you get exercising to exhaustion like you suggest is muscle and cardiovascular improvements.  Optimum calorie burning takes place at a much lower effort.

Better cardio health = better ability to keep up useful exercise. 

Besides, the endorphin rush makes you more likely to want to exercise regularly. 

[mtnbkr]

Better cardio health = better ability to keep up useful exercise. 

Besides, the endorphin rush makes you more likely to want to exercise regularly. 

You're talking to a guy who's done' 117 mile bike rides with 10k feet climbing, multi-mile runs in the mountains, etc.  I know the benefits of strenuous exercise and the endorphin rush.  However, we're talking about weight loss, which does not require that level of exertion.  A daily long walk will do most people more good than an infrequent sprint.

Chris

[dm1333]

True, but the realities of a Western diet make it true for most of us.  It's damn hard to avoid carbs unless you prepare everything yourself and never eat out, never eat prepared foods, etc. 

Chris

I'm in the same boat you are with regard to diet and blood sugar.  I cut out most of the simple carbs like potatoes and cut way back on pasta, rice, etc.  Turnips and parsnips make great substitutes for starchy foods. I eat plenty of other veggies too like kohlrabi, bok choy, all sorts of radishes, etc.  My blood sugar is now back to normal, my cholesterol is under 200 and I'm down 18.5 pounds and still losing weight.

[KD5NRH]

You're talking to a guy who's done' 117 mile bike rides with 10k feet climbing, multi-mile runs in the mountains, etc.  I know the benefits of strenuous exercise and the endorphin rush.  However, we're talking about weight loss, which does not require that level of exertion.  A daily long walk will do most people more good than an infrequent sprint.

Infrequent anything isn't going to help.  A single sprint won't do much either.  I'm talking more along the lines of interval training to exhaustion at least three days a week.