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Despising the species II: Fellowship of Kindred folks
Felonious Monk/Fignozzle:
matis, grampster, sm, Stand_watie and I sort of unintentionally hijacked Sindawe's earlier thread about a couple of abused African cheetahs, and turned it into an episode of Ecumenical Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
Blackburn & Sindawe had salient points about the cheetahs. Please continue that discussion here:
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/viewtopic.php?id=1905
I also believe that an important dialogue was begun among...(wording?) people of faith in the midst of that thread.
This is an attempt to continue that conversation without continuing to hijack Blackburn's thread.
Fig
Felonious Monk/Fignozzle:
--- Quote from: sm ---As some know, I was raised in an Independent Baptist setting.
I apprenticed starting about age 12 under Orthodox Jews.
They don't teach kids in a Baptist Sunday school to NOT take a ham sandwich to Orthodox owned places of work.
What is interesting, is the old Preacher used to meet with Jewish, Catholics, and other faiths over coffee and pie. Discuss their respective congregations and how they were dealing with, coping with and what-all with the goings in in the Real World. JFK being asssinated, Cuban Missles, or even more local events - not the Faiths being hashed about - the respective peoples and how to deal with all of this. Some great ideas shared and used.
I was learning a whole lot more than what I was there for apprenticship. We had reformed Jews and honestly, I forget all the names and differences,we did business with,I'm a dumb Gentile. I was accepted as being one and this was not meant as being a bad thing.
We had the Catholics come in too, I was facinated as to the quality of converstation and respect watching, listening, learning these two "different" sects were to me.
We had other Protestant groups, "Hey Steve, you speak Baptist, what is this Methodist trying to tell us he wants...laughter and no hard feelings.
"Hey Steve, you ever met a Mormon?" I had not to my knowledge ever met one, Sunday School never explained that either, didn't know what to expect, so I come out the shop and there is good looking lady with her husband. Normal folks. Beginning to figure out this "dumb Gentile" had a lot of truth to its meaning.
I was totally awed, My Orthodox boss and his wife were so knowledgeable about the Mormons and history, a Father comes in with a Nun, and they joined in the conversation. I'm observing, hearing these...these "other faiths" interact and no negative.
Boss " we can always be farmers again"
Mormons " yes , we know those skills as well..."
Catholic "we have never been afraid to get our hands dirty either..."
That is when I made my own decisons about belief systems. I respected the teachings, the traditions and appreciations. I also noticed it came from within each person. It did not come the shape, size, name on the building they met, or days of week they met.
This caused hands to face, jaws to drop and me getting fussed at by my own kind - except the old Man Preacher. He was sharp, He was smart. He passed away many many years ago.
Interesting how with my own kind, and those with same name, they attend a bulding once a week. One is even a deacon in his church - oh they put up a good front, they give great lip service when around their own kind ...
The Orthodox Jews and later Reformed Jews as employers walked the walk. So did the Catholics, Mormons and other Protestant groups such as Episcopalions, Methodists ...
I recall all of out shooting, oh yes we did this. We all carried back then and kept firearms handy, even though back then there was "no official paper"...
"We may all have a different belief system name, we all have a belief system. We all believe in personal responsiblity, and not being meddled with".
There I am shooting with all these belief systems, both genders, and ribbing and kidding. "You try shooting with a Penguin suit on...let me see how well you do" One of the nuns jokingly spoke. Hasiddic (sp?) quipped ' "try it with a beard in this heat and not having your hat fall off...".
Somebody take the dumb Gentile to lunch and feed him a ham sandwich will you? - My boss said laughing. He and the Jew went one way, I ate with the Catholics ,Mormons, and such.
It had to be a Friday, Cause the Catholics ate fish, I got into the BBQ pork.
There is time and place to defend, times one must meddle in times of defense, others, best not to meddle. Mentors & Elders shared many examples of in history folks meddled - all in the name of a Belief System.
Steve
Felonious Monk/Fignozzle:
--- Quote from: matis ---
--- Quote from: Felonious Fig ---No feathers ruffled here. I think the cooperation we forge is mutually beneficial, without having to insist that Jews become Christians or vice versa.Fig, You got what I'm trying to say.
I know that you are (like your apt metaphor -- the Golden Retriever) "good hearted". That's why I allow myself to write without pulling punches.
--- Quote ---This is getting long, so I'll just say thanks for your friendship and generosity.You're welcome. But it seems like I should be offering exactly the same thanks to you.
You allow me to get it off my chest without taking personal offense. Then you say you'll remember it when with other Jews. The generousity is yours.
You and Stand-watie and Grampster (I hope I'm not forgetting anybody) convey a genuine wish for friendship and, if I may say it this way, a sweetness.
It makes me feel safe to say what I think is necessary so we can truly understand each other, instead of just being superficially nice to each other.
There exists an organization run by a Rabbi Lapin, called Toward Tradition. He too promotes an alliance of conservative, believing Jews and Christians for the purpose of fighting the increasing degeneracy we are sinking into.
I've read some of his stuff and heard him on the radio and I like what I heard. It's late now, but tomorrow I'll google him and make contact.
Simply posting the way we do moves us in the right direction.
But maybe it's time to do a bit more.
I'll let you know what I find out.
Be well,
matis
Sindawe:
What? You mean this is NOT a thread for misanthropes to give vent? I call Title FRAUD!!!
--- Quote ---That is when I made my own decisons about belief systems. I respected the teachings, the traditions and appreciations. I also noticed it came from within each person. It did not come the shape, size, name on the building they met, or days of week they met.
This caused hands to face, jaws to drop and me getting fussed at by my own kind - except the old Man Preacher. He was sharp, He was smart. He passed away many many years ago.
Interesting how with my own kind, and those with same name, they attend a bulding once a week. One is even a deacon in his church - oh they put up a good front, they give great lip service when around their own kind ...Fair weather [insert faith of choice here] far exceed in number those who truely take the teachings of their faiths to heart and live by its values each and every day.
grampster:
I think I have met more faithful folks outside of church buildings rather than in them. On the other hand, there are many faithful folks inside of them too. Maybe that is why the Christian bible advises one to "test the spirit" of those around you. I seem to notice that spriritual people are more faithful when found in circumstances of persecution. I once had an Eastern European tell me that they used to pray for brother Christians in America because our faith was weaker because of our plenty. I see that dynamic at work in my own life. I push God away when things are going good and reach out and whine when they are not. Maybe that is why the Children of Israel are, mostly, so firm in their beliefs. Persecution has been their handmaiden consistently since God appointed them His people.
I have come to avoid the merchant and peddler who uses his "religion" to attract customers. Many is the time I have seen people displayed on the front page of the local paper with an invisible "I'm a moron" sign hanging around their neck because they gave their life savings to the *insert relegion* snake oil salesman.
I have also met folks who have no profession of faith in the customary sense. Some are kind and honest as well. In my 62 years (maybe 50 of them as a quasi sentient being) it seems to me that bad people exist no matter what they profess. Evil, imho, does walk the earth. I think that is the one firm reason that I have a problem with Secularists. (I don't identify most atheists or agnostics in this group)
Secularists seem to believe that Man is inherantly good, and that if we all just sit down over tea and discuss our differences, everything will be peaceful and orderly. Secularists don't believe in evil. My time on this earth has taught me otherwise. In fact, if you think about it for a moment, really think about it, children never have to be taught how to be bad. Conversely they have to be taught to be good, to be civilized. If left to their own devices, nothing good will come of it. I think we see a good bit of this in our times because of the relaxed standards of discipline and the blurring of the difference between good and evil.
The one thing that I have never been able to totally rectify in my mind is the caustic dynamic that goes on between sects of the same faith. We see it in Christian, Jew, Muslim and Hindu etc. I have never really understood that. I think, perhaps the Christian bible does put a perspective on it when (in this case, Christ's church) is described as like a body with Jesus as it's head. When you think about the body, there are a myriad of activities that are going on simultaneously, even, seemingly at odds with each other. Yet everything that goes on has a purpose that is unified. It is called Life. Jesus (in Christianity) is its head (brain), the director of the concert. Perhaps we ought think more about what unites us and causes us to be able to get up and move around and be able to play rhapsodies, rather than arguing over whether the corpuscle is more important than the nose hair.
That acceptance of the reality that we are more alike than diverse ought to be a unifying experience, especially with those of us who call the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Father.
I think I'll go have a root beer float now.
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