Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: HeroHog on April 02, 2019, 10:14:11 PM
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REPARATIONS
Ok, here's the deal, find a direct relative of mine who owned slaves. Note how far from me on my family tree that slave owning relative is.
Now, find the direct descendants of those particular slaves directly linked to YOU. Note their distance down their family tree that they are from you.
For every generation I am from each slave owner, divide by half. Example: my great, great, great, great uncle owned a slave. That would be 1/2/2/2/2/2 = 0.03125
For every generation you are from your direct relative slave, divide by one-half. 1/2/2/2/2/2 = 0.03125
Ok, let's say the 40 acres and a Mule promised to the slaves are worth ($3,020 X 40) + a $1,500 mule in today's money would be $120,800 + $1.500 - $122,300. Also, please note that the offer was " … each family shall have a plot of NOT MORE THAN (40) acres of tillable ground, and when it borders on some water channel, with not more than 800 feet water front" and that this was to be divided up amongst all the slaves from 400,000 acres of land. That is 10,000 40 acre plots, max BUT "Over 100,000 ex-slaves fought for the Union and over 500,000 fled their plantations for Union lines." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_during_the_American_Civil_War so a LOT of slaves are getting less or NO land.
Source: https://www.theroot.com/the-truth-behind-40-acres-and-a-mule-1790894780
The average cost of an acre according to: https://www.agweb.com/land/farmland-value-guide/
"In 2015, the average acre in the United States sold for $3,020."
The average mule cost in today’s money source: http://howmuchdoescost.com/how-much-does-a-mule-cost/).
That means my ancestor might owe $122,300 to THAT SLAVE even though the GOVERNMENT made that agreement, not the slave owners so it’s the US Government and military you need to talk to.
This leaves your level of claim to be a maximum of $122,300 X 0.03125 = $3821.875
I say maximum because that was assuming only 1 child per ancestor. For each previous child between or next to you in your family tree, you would have to divide by 2 again to split the pot equally among the surviving kin so figuring a LOW average of two kids per generation, it actually would be smaller than 1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2 or 0.0009765625 so that leaves you with somewhat less than $119.44
Now MY responsibility of that amount would be a Maximum of $119.44 X 0.03125 = $3.74. Of course, for each of my ancestor’s children between me and that slave owning kin would halve that number as well so you’re looking at closer to a MAX of 1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2 or 0.00390625 X $119.44 which is $0.47, IF you are lucky.
Bring me the genealogical proof and a full family tree for both of us and I will pay you on the spot.
:facepalm: :old:
© Copyright Speedy Mercer 4/2/2019
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Wouldn't it be easier just to build some casinos? Works for my people.
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I have no direct American ancestors that owned slaves, not sure about European ones.
I imagine somewhere back in time, my Hebrew ancestors were slaves and my non peerage European ancestors were probably serfs at one time. So I better get a fat check from Egypt and various European nations.
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Slaves were expensive, and the plantation system didn't allow for a ton of upward mobility for poor folks.
I suspect you are more likely to find slave owners in the geneolgy of folks with African and Asian decent then European just going by the prevalence of slaves in those societies.
Not to diminish the evils of slavery anywhere anywhen, but acting like folks of African decent in the colonies had some special ticket in history is stupid.
I would also opine that it is the height of arrogance and self serving hipocracy to talk about paying the decedents of slaves "reparations" when there is actual slavery in the world, and even the US, today.
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I actually have a Great, Great, Great, Great, Uncle who owned 2 slaves that, according to records, were treated fairly well for whatever that is worth. How much guilt do I bare? Not one damn bit!
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Do y'all agree with my math and reasoning, in general? Pointers?
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Do y'all agree with my math and reasoning, in general? Pointers?
Dunno about the math, but I agree with your reasoning ... IF there should ever be a proclamation that reparations are due. I'm not prepared to concede that point. None of my ancestors ever owned slaves, so as far as I'm concerned I don't owe anybody reparations.
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I'm pretty sure I've squandered whatever material advantage any slave-owning ancestors (if there were such) might have passed on to me, so where would I get the money to pay?
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Got you all beat. There's a fair chance one of my ancestors was involved in the slave trade. Mom's side goes back to colonial times.
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Do y'all agree with my math and reasoning, in general? Pointers?
You're missing out on interest payments. So that $114 would be compounded over 150 years.
We know the government tends to be a low return investment, but let's be generous and offer a 3% return.
Compounding yearly, that comes out to about $9,600.
I point this out because many of the complaints are that white people have accumulated capital which was formed on the labor of the slaves, passed down through parents over the past 150 years while black people have had nothing to pass down. Therefore, that accumulated capital is the explanation for the variation in outcomes for white families versus black families.
They are absolutely wrong, and the vast majority of white people have had nothing to pass along in that time frame (and that would be the case even without the interceding Great Depression) AND the vast majority of white people didn't own slaves, so they could not have had capital formed by them, and that black families were in MUCH better shape in the 1950s than they are today, but that will be the response, nonetheless.
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I've been reading some biographical and autobiographical books circa 1850 recently. It was interesting to me how often free black men owning slaves was mentioned, yet modern reparations are all about the white devil. Reparations are for slaves and children of slaves, and to be paid for by the owners of said slaves. Do we have any around?
Otherwise most people from most cultures can trace back some generations to when some of "their people" were slaves or indentured in some past culture. There is no faster way to set race relations back to the civil war era than reparations. I'm actually quite shocked that so many of the 2020 dem contenders are pushing it so hard.
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If it's fair to gouge people for their ancestors' crimes from 150+ years ago, then we're also reimbursing the descendants for all of their ancestors being enslaved, right? So each descendant gets a few generations worth of back pay, emotional damages? And then we also ship them back to their ancestors' point of origin, I would assume. As I understand it, most black slaves brought into the U.S. (or the 13 colonies) came from the African slave populations of the Caribbean.
So we'll have to load these people down with the money, chain them up, and fly them to the Bahamas, where they'll presumably be emancipated. Hmmm. No wonder they want reparations.
Almost forgot: After we've taken the money from those low-down, dirty slave-owners' descendants, we'll have to figure out their prison sentences.
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I guess we could follow South Africa's example and just force wealthy evilwhite landowners out at gunpoint and turn their illgotten property over to the oppressed former slaves.
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I guess we could follow South Africa's example and just force wealthy evilwhite landowners out at gunpoint and turn their illgotten property over to the oppressed former slaves.
That worked really well for the country formerly known as Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. The blacks now own the land but do not have the knowledge to make things grow on it, so they are reaching out to the former land owners for help. I wonder how that is working out for them? =|
bob
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That worked really well for the country formerly known as Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. The blacks now own the land but do not have the knowledge to make things grow on it, so they are reaching out to the former land owners for help. I wonder how that is working out for them? =|
bob
Wasn't Zimbabwe formerly known as The Breadbasket of Africa once upon a time and they're now a net food importer?
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Wasn't Zimbabwe formerly known as The Breadbasket of Africa once upon a time and they're now a net food importer?
Pretty much. Looking at the stats for that country now is pretty sad, lots of poverty, famine and wasted land. South Africa will be joining them in a decade or so in that handbasket to hell.
bob
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Not to rain on your reparations parade but since the LBJ Great Society and the his creation of the huge welfare state, we should take that into consideration as a payout in reparations and deducted from any sum based on Speedy's calculations.
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That worked really well for the country formerly known as Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. The blacks now own the land but do not have the knowledge to make things grow on it, so they are reaching out to the former land owners for help. I wonder how that is working out for them? =|
The new landowners did things like rip out copper tubing and wiring from residences, irrigation systems, etc., and sell it as scrap. As soon as the cane and orange ran out, they started trying to find the former (white) owners and demand that they restore functioning pumps and such. The responses were . . . not polite.
Oh, and as for my personal obligation for reparations . . . at the time of the slave trade, my ancestors were still back in Eastern Europe and dealing with things like raids by cossasks. Even if they were aware of slavery here, they were in no position to do anything about it. And of course, slavery ended decades before my grandparents were born. So the way I figure it, my obligation is actually negative, judging by how much of the taxes I, my parents, and my grandparents paid have gone to descendants of former slaves.
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Good stuff guys. I knew there HAD to be several "angles" I missed!
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Good stuff guys. I knew there HAD to be several "angles" I missed!
No history of slave ownership in my family tree. It received a noticeable pruning during the civil war though - fighting on behalf of the north. It is my understanding that death benefits were never paid for them.
Where's my money for that?
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Considering that My earliest ancestors came to the new world in the late 1860s, and the most recent came over in 1914 as an indentured servant, I owe nobody anything.
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Considering that My earliest ancestors came to the new world in the late 1860s, and the most recent came over in 1914 as an indentured servant, I owe nobody anything.
Most Americans, like yours, were descended from people that came after the abolishment of slavery.
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Most Americans, like yours, were descended from people that came after the abolishment of slavery.
But still quite a few that can trace back to pre Civil War times. My Mother's side has been traced back as far as the War of Independence, we had an ancestor who was held on a prisoner ship in NY Harbor during part of the war, whether he was a miscreant or a Patriot POW has yet to be determined. Don't think we had any slave owners in the family though.
bob
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Most Americans, like yours, were descended from people that came after the abolishment of slavery.
...and that is why my first instinct when someone talks about extracting reparations from me because I'm white, is to kick them in the balls.
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Late 1600's for my family and a documented history back to 1640, that's how I know a relative owned a few slaves.
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Y'all better give me my money! :mad:
Just kidding. ;)
I agree with this gentleman: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/04/06/watch-civil-rights-leader-unleashes-on-2020-dems-al-sharpton-for-reparations-support/ (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/04/06/watch-civil-rights-leader-unleashes-on-2020-dems-al-sharpton-for-reparations-support/)
Civil Rights Leader Michael Meyers says...
It’s more of that blame whitey movement, mania, madness. And it’s sheer racial rhetoric...And anybody who thinks that white Americans are going to take the blame or going to feel guilty or give their land and their property away in some sort of reparations pot, because they feel responsibility for the sins of their forebears. They’re not.
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In the same vein as the above link:
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2019/04/07/they-try-and-treat-us-like-idiots-gianno-caldwell-drops-dems-for-promising-black-americans-reparations-and-damn/
The two points that make sense to me regarding so many of the 2020 dem contenders jumping on this bandwagon:
1) Dangle the candy.
2) After the election, blame the Republicans for taking the candy away.
It actually applies to a good many "free stuff" promises.
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In the same vein as the above link:
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2019/04/07/they-try-and-treat-us-like-idiots-gianno-caldwell-drops-dems-for-promising-black-americans-reparations-and-damn/
The two points that make sense to me regarding so many of the 2020 dem contenders jumping on this bandwagon:
1) Dangle the candy.
2) After the election, blame the Republicans for taking the candy away.
It actually applies to a good many "free stuff" promises.
That actually describes pretty much every election since 1968 onward
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But still quite a few that can trace back to pre Civil War times. My Mother's side has been traced back as far as the War of Independence, we had an ancestor who was held on a prisoner ship in NY Harbor during part of the war, whether he was a miscreant or a Patriot POW has yet to be determined. Don't think we had any slave owners in the family though.
bob
I'm a direct decendant of William White, an original signer of the Mayflower Pact. I also have a direct ancestor that got married in Hartford CT in 1641.
I'm pretty sure that most if not all of my direct ancestors were not slave owners, and some fought for the Union in the Civil War.
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I'm not for reparations (too late), but there are other ways to benefit from a slave system, than through owning slaves. Your ancestors may not have owned human beings, but that doesn't mean they weren't involved in selling slave-grown products abroad, via Northern ports. Or selling the stuff domestically. Etc.
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I'm not for reparations (too late), but there are other ways to benefit from a slave system, than through owning slaves. Your ancestors may not have owned human beings, but that doesn't mean they weren't involved in selling slave-grown products abroad, via Northern ports. Or selling the stuff domestically. Etc.
By that logic everyone decended from involved with Nike could owe reparations to the sweatshop workers making the shoes. Or everyone mildly involved in the production of Teslas could owe reparations to the child miners in the Congo.
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By that logic everyone decended from involved with Nike could owe reparations to the sweatshop workers making the shoes. Or everyone mildly involved in the production of Teslas could owe reparations to the child miners in the Congo.
Once those sweatshop workers and child miners become a vital voting bloc then we'll hear about that.
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By that logic everyone decended from involved with Nike could owe reparations to the sweatshop workers making the shoes. Or everyone mildly involved in the production of Teslas could owe reparations to the child miners in the Congo.
Go on.
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I am fully in favor of reparations for gun owners.
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I am fully in favor of reparations for gun owners.
You're the second old-timer I've seen return recently after a long absence. Welcome back!
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Thank you, Ben. =)