Author Topic: Help a techno-tard (or is a laptop for me?)  (Read 2726 times)

SpookyPistolero

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Help a techno-tard (or is a laptop for me?)
« on: June 02, 2006, 07:23:13 PM »
Howdy folks!

I've convinced myself that it's probably time to buy a laptop for school, since I start pharmacy school in the fall and such a large amount of the classwork and resources are web-based/digital. This will probably be coming out of student loan money (read as long term living expenses), but I'm looking at it as an investment in my education.

Basically, I can't afford to do it wrong here. I need to get something that works right and works reliably. I really want to stress that longevity and reliability are paramount. It will be used for lots of word processing, fun with powerpoint, and internet research/study. The requirements:

-No constant crashing or breaking or freaking out when it gets new programs.
-Needs to be light enough to carry around in my satchel all day.
-Darn speedy processor (I don't know what speed that translates into)
-Is a gig of RAM asking a lot? Is that overkill?
-Wireless internet capabilities (does this cost money on some kind of monthly service? or are 'hot spots' enough?)
-CD burner
-LONG battery life

I really don't know a lot about laptops and was hoping folks could give suggestions on brands, realistic expectations and whether or not my expectations are feasible on a student's budget (which I haven't determined in any exact amount, and am attempting to ballpark here).

Thanks much for any thoughts!
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Gewehr98

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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2006, 07:32:36 PM »
I've been tickled absolutely pink with the Dell Inspiron 6000 I'm working on right now.  It has a 6 hour battery life, and I ordered it with 1 Gig of memory, the faster Pentium M processor, the larger 60 Gig hard drive, and higher-resolution display.  

It's neat to drive around Madison, park somewhere, and get 802.11g Wi-Fi darned near every time.  People gotta learn to turn on their encryption, though.  Wink
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SpookyPistolero

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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2006, 07:37:53 PM »
Would you be offended if I asked what you paid, including upgrades? 6hrs of battery life sounds fantastic. Is yours heavy?

I was checking out this-

http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/latit_d620?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

and didn't know if that was any good?
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Vodka7

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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2006, 09:49:29 PM »
Speaking as someone who graduated not too long ago:

You won't end up bringing it to class.  It's big, it's goofy, there's rarely enough room for a book let alone a laptop on most desks, and clicking keys is incredibly annoying to everyone else in any class that seats less than a hundred people.

Through all the roommates, housemates, suitemates, friends, and etc that I had, the only time I ever saw a laptop leave the desk of anyone's room was to go somewhere to do a group project.  Unless you count the two asian kids in my intro to comp sci class who spent the whole period playing counterstrike against each other on an ad-hoc wireless network.  Speaking of wireless, check to see if your campus even has wireless--lots of them only have it in certain lecture halls, or not at all.

That said, it's a lot easier to pack up a laptop at the end of a semester than a desktop with a 19" CRT like mine.

If your goals are really what you stated, you can easily get by using the computer labs on campus, but if your goals are more like "IM/myspace/message boards" then it might be a good idea to get the cheapest desktop you can afford without rolling it into financing you'll be paying off for years.

mtnbkr

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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2006, 02:53:47 AM »
Make sure you NEED the portability of a laptop before you buy one.  You pay a premium for the format and they're difficult to upgrade when you need better video or a larger harddrive.  Why people buy laptops as "desktop replacements", I'll never know...

I've had good luck with Dell.  Though check the model and make sure it has a REAL PC Card slot, not the newer ones that aren't even supported yet by card manufacturers. Shocked.  I've had terrible luck with Compaq/HP.  At least a few years ago, Toshiba was the durability winner.  My comments about specific brands were regarding durability, fit/finish, etc.  Issues regarding stability, etc are the domain of the OS and YOUR skill at keeping it running smoothly.  I prefer Win2, but I've been working more with XP lately and find it a good OS as well, though I haven't used it long enough to see how well it'll handle longterm use (lots of installs/uninstalls, etc).

A gig of ram isn't too much to ask for.  Just about any processor currently on the market will be speedy enough for MS Office, the Internet, and some gaming.  Where you'll want real ultimate power is the latest hardcore games, graphics and video work (actually working with them, not viewing), and programming.  Most, if not all laptops have a CD and sometimes a DVD burner.  Unless you need the capacity or DVD player compatability, don't worry about a DVD burner.  Wireless in the form of 802.11 is pretty common.  Wireless in the form of EVDO (Verizon wireless broadband for example) is subscription based.  With the preponderance of free hotspots, it's not really useful unless you're traveling while using it.

For my money, I'd keep an eye on Dell and catch one of their many sales.  I got my wife a great laptop (15.4" widescreen, CD-RW/DVD-ROM, 1gig ram, etc) for roughly half it's regular price with all the things except long battery life that you requested.

Chris

SpookyPistolero

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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2006, 03:10:16 AM »
Thanks for the comments!

I'm also still trying to decide if it's going to be worth getting for my needs, and I'll likely wait until after school gets rolling again to go all in. I definitely felt that a laptop would have been a waste during my 4 yrs of undergrad.

Some of the reasons for thinking one might be worth having now are having to be on campus for 8 hrs a day (and not always being able to work in the computer labs due to crowds) and things like the college sending out 20 to 30 emails per day (or so everyone has told me).  It's definitely not for taking notes in class or anything, as I've felt compelled to beat up folks who do that.

Thanks agian-
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"Smoke your pipe and be silent; there's only wind and smoke in the world"  - Irish Proverb

Phantom Warrior

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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2006, 01:01:54 PM »
You seem to have gotten close to making a decision, but I'll chip in.  I had a desktop all...well, 3.5 years of undergrad.  It was the old beast I got back in 2001 after I graduated high school and it worked well all through college.  There were almost no times I regretted not having a laptop.  I did live on campus though, so I had easy access to it in between classes.  The point about a laptop being easier to pack up at the end of the year is very true.  

Definitely check up on whether your campus has wireless hot spots.  More and more colleges do.  And if the whole campus/lecture halls don't, there is often a cafe or coffee shop that does.

A quick run down on your requirements:

-No constant crashing or breaking or freaking out when it gets new programs.
I've been happy w/ XP and ME before that.  Part of it is just to avoid lots of programs w/ weird spyware, delete unused extra programs, and generally doing some light maintenance on your computer.

-Needs to be light enough to carry around in my satchel all day.
Never had a problem w/ weight.  Books are much heavier.  The only issue would be do you have the room to carry a couple of textbooks AND a laptop?  That will bring up the issue of screen size.  A 14" or smaller screen will be easier to carry around, but a bigger screeen is more comfortable to use.  I have a 15" screen and have been happy w/ that compromise.

-Darn speedy processor (I don't know what speed that translates into)
I have a 1.8 GHz AMD Sempron on my laptop.  My old desktop had a 500 MHz Celeron.  That got me through all of college.  That includes word processing, Internet use, mp3s, and programming.  I really only sold it because I was coming to Germany and wanted a laptop for portability.  Looking at your stated uses, you would probably fine w/ the slowest processor package (probably 1.5 GHz or so).  That's still pretty fast.  If you want to get into cutting edge games, that's when you will need the new 3-4 GHz processors.

-Is a gig of RAM asking a lot? Is that overkill?
Yes and no.  I used 512 MB of RAM all through college and for a while on my laptop.  I just added another 512 MB stick a few months ago to bring my laptop up to 1 GB.  I haven't noticed too much difference.  Again, it's more an issue if you game a lot.


-Wireless internet capabilities (does this cost money on some kind of monthly service? or are 'hot spots' enough?)
If you just use hotspots on campus at coffee shops or in lecture halls, wireless is completely free.  If you want to set up wireless in your home, that will cost money.  You get DSL or whatever Internet service you want and then simply buy a wireless router to broadcast the service through your house.

GET A WIRELESS CARD!  You may end up getting wireless in your house.  I've done it both at home and in the barracks here and loved it.  You can walk around the whole house w/o worrying about cords.  It's nice to sit on the couch or my bed and be able to surf the Internet.  Even if you don't, there are enough places these days w/ free wireless that you will be kicking yourself if you don't.  


-CD burner
Good choice.  Not quite sure what you want to use it for.  I guess the only advice I can give you is most laptops come standard w/ that and/or a DVD drive, so you shoudn't have too much trouble affording it.

-LONG battery life
This sort of conflicts w/ portability.  My laptop has the "12 cell" or whatever battery instead of the "6 cell."  That gives me a couple extra hours of battery life, but the battery is physically BIGGER.  Not terribly, but it makes it a little tricker to cram into my back pack.  Though in fairness, I have a dedicated laptop pocket that was clearly designed for a smaller laptop.  Just throwing it in the main compartment would be too easy.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus

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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2006, 01:13:55 PM »
Lenovo/IBM Thinkpad.

Yeah, I'm a shill for Corporate. Cheesy


honestly, the T and X series are great. The R series isn't bad either.

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lee n. field

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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2006, 05:26:17 PM »
Quote
No constant crashing or breaking or freaking out when it gets new programs.
How well that happens, if you have a Windows machine, is totally up to you.   Consumer oriented machines come preloaded down with CRAP!!!!.  I'm tempted to say get a Mac, 'cause they seem more resistant to user-initiated hosing up.

Is there any software, not office type apps, but related to the field, that you have to be able to run?   Check the specs, becuase that's what you'll have to meet.

Quote
-Needs to be light enough to carry around in my satchel all day.
-Darn speedy processor (I don't know what speed that translates into)
-Is a gig of RAM asking a lot? Is that overkill?
-Wireless internet capabilities (does this cost money on some kind of monthly service? or are 'hot spots' enough?)
-CD burner
-LONG battery life
We had a customer who needed a cheap laptop able to hold up to riding around in a rent-a-cop car.  We sold them a white-book ruggedized laptop from a vendor we've used for many years and had very good luck with.   With XP Pro and a  3 year next day exchange warranty it ended up costing them something in the neighborhoon of $1450.
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Pebcac

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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2006, 05:33:40 AM »
I'd probably lean toward an IBM.  My job provided one for me to use, and I use it as a desktop replacement.  My particular model is a couple of years old and heavy, but it's a nice machine, and has been very reliable.  There are also several Dells floating around, and they're pretty nice, too.

I would recommend that you pay for the extended hardware warranty regardless of what you buy.  Should your mobo or LCD crap out one day past the warranty expiration, you may as well buy a new laptop for what the repair will cost you.  Many moons ago, I worked in an IBM laptop repair depot, and folks were appalled at what it cost to get a machine repaired with refurb parts.
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InfidelSerf

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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2006, 09:21:51 AM »
Avoid Dell like the plague.  While some of their systems may be fine. Their service completely sucks.
If you ever have to send it in for service (and you most likely will with a laptop, they run rather hot and that damages circuits)
then get used to talking to Habebe for 30 minutes when all you really needed was for them to send out a box.
NEVER waste your time explaining the problem to the person on the phone. Just say it's broken and you need a box.  Just get huffy with the guy so you get handed off to his manager, then he will finally do what should have been done from the start and send out a box to return it.
The technician that ultimately looks at it will pretty much ignore the notes from Habebe and just diagnose it himself.

I have been shopping for a laptop for several months now.
I would have to say the best values on the market are Toshiba and Acer.

As far as the increased cost of a laptop versus a stationary system. There isn't as large of a gap as their used to be.
For $700-1000 you can get a laptop that will satisfy all your needs.
Above that and you are paying for either fancy gaming capabilities, lighter weight or a larger screen.
A 14" widescreen LCD is just fine for a laptop.  I used to think I wanted a 17" on a laptop.. but in all honesty you will probably find that a larger screen isn't worth the additional expense..besides you can always plug in a larger monitor for when you are at home or the office.

Definetly get 512MB or more memory. 1GB is a good start.
If you run XP home or pro it will be nice and stable.   The primary difference is if you will ever need to log into a domain server. (some colleges will require that ability, if so get Pro.  Pro also adds the ability to set up remote access to the system.

Add a laptop cooler to extend the life of the system.  They are pads with fans in them (they often run off a usb port) that the system sits on. Your legs will thank you, and it will prolong the life of the laptop.
Buy a good case when you get it too.  You will want to protect your investment.

Unless you want to do highend graphics work, CAD/3d design, or play the latest and greatest games. Anything 1Ghz or faster will be fine.

Most new laptops come with 802.11 wireless built in. If it doesn't.. keep looking.
As stated before it is free in many hotspots.  
If your savvy you can learn to use something like Netstumbler and have access pretty much anywhere in the US.  (Keep in mind there are some ethical questions that arise when going that route)

FWIW I've been doing computer consulting work for 10+years.
Based on that my experience has been that 95% of all crashes, lockups, and general computer issues are user error. Or more importantly a lack of user knowledge.  
If you surf the internet like a drunken frat boy on Bourbon st.  then your going to end up with viral issues and lots of spyware and spam.

The best train of thought is to question everything. NEVER click links from emails. (for example if you get an email saying such and such account is going to be closed if you don't resond. Type in the url to the site in question directly rather than clicking the link.  Paypal phishing uses that method alot. For example if you have a myspace account and you get a msg saying you have a new msg from someone ....for God's sake don't click the link.  Go to the root url of myspace and login as you would normally do. Then check your msgs. Most of the time you won't have a new msg from that person in the email. No matter how much the email looks like an official myspace email.
Remember graphics are easy to copy and paste.  

Finally I wouldn't spend much more than 1K on a laptop since you will get about 3 years max use out of it.. Then you will probably want to upgrade to a newer one. Spend as little as you can to get the specs you want.

Good luck
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mtnbkr

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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2006, 09:45:17 AM »
Quote
Avoid Dell like the plague.  While some of their systems may be fine. Their service completely sucks.  If you ever have to send it in for service (and you most likely will with a laptop, they run rather hot and that damages circuits) then get used to talking to Habebe for 30 minutes when all you really needed was for them to send out a box.  NEVER waste your time explaining the problem to the person on the phone. Just say it's broken and you need a box.  Just get huffy with the guy so you get handed off to his manager, then he will finally do what should have been done from the start and send out a box to return it.  The technician that ultimately looks at it will pretty much ignore the notes from Habebe and just diagnose it himself.
Except for the last sentence, everything you said is  more or less overstated.

Professionally, I've used Dell quite a bit.  The first time as the LAN administrator for a large (300+ people) project.  Our standard laptops were Dell and Compaq.  Dell was a delight to deal with.  The only problem I had with them was having to walk through their script for any problem that might fit their diagnostic script.  Once we did that, they dispatched a tech and we got the problem solved, often within 24hrs.  Compaq required you to send in the laptop and it might be gone for a month or more.  The second time was as an end user at a company that used Dell (after dropping compaq) for it's primary laptop system.  As an end user, I had a problem with my Dell laptop.  I called Dell's support line and spent about 10 minutes discussing the problem.  They sent out a tech, who arrived the next day with the parts.  An hour later, my laptop is fixed.  Prior to that laptop, I had a Compaq.   It too had an issue for which Compaq wisely dispatched a tech.  The tech got halfway through the job, realized he didn't have all the parts, and left to get them, promising he'd return the next day.  Next day, no tech.  Two days later...no tech.  Turns out, my support contract had run out and he wasn't supposed to be dispatched at all.  Compaq was more than willing to leave me with a half unassembled machine since it was "out of warranty".  I had to talk to multiple customer service managers in order to get them to send a tech out to finish the job.

I'll take a Dell any day.

FWIW, I also have a Dell laptop (couple months old, no problems at all) and a Dell server (nearly 2 years old, running 24/7 without issue) at the house.

Chris

SpookyPistolero

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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2006, 03:07:09 PM »
Is gateway something to stay clear of? I recall hearing bad things from friends.

Also, are those screens that actually rotate and fold over, that allow you to 'write' on them, any good? Not worth some unforseen impracticality/expense?

Whats the difference between some that I see with the Intel Centrino mobile versus ones that have the 802.11? Apples versus baseballs?

What kind of bottom line costs am I looking at in general?

Too Many CHOICES!!!!!! [Spooky crawls into fetal position on floor]
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Azrael256

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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2006, 03:58:04 PM »
Ok, one word will solve all of your problems: Toshiba.  I have been issued several laptops, and the Toshiba was my favorite.  

Mine was a tablet like you're talking about, Spooky.  The big advantage to the tablets is that they're very small.  The big disadvantage is that they're much more expensive, and the tablet function is all but useless.  If you were walking around a warehouse running some kind of inventory control software, it would be cool.  For tracking down rogue wireless APs on a golf cart, it was great.  For normal end-user applications, it's pointless.  It is also hard to use the tablet function.  You have to tuck the computer into your arm to get a good base for it to work with the pen, and that's an uncomfortable way to write.  On the other hand, when used as a regular laptop, the very small size was a huge advantage.  It was a good deal smaller and lighter than most of my textbooks.  The few times I had to deal with Toshiba's service people, they were top-notch.

Dell laptops aren't bad, but their end user service leaves a bit to be desired.  Their enterprise service was spectacular, but students with Dells had problems.  I would rank them #2 behind Toshiba.  IBM makes big clunky laptops that can survive a fall of 50m.  They use good parts and make a rugged machine, but their big disadvantage is size and weight.  I would rank them #3.  Compaq/HP makes a decent machine, but they're almost as big and heavy as an IBM.  I was also dissatisfied with some of the physical features, like weak screen latches and easy-to-break cover doors over accessory connectors.  I would rank them #5.   Gateway is a joke, btw.  I won't dignify them with a ranking.

The Centrino thing is a package of mobility features.  For your purposes, Centrino is just Intel's name for their 802.11 card.  There's more to it than that, but it's not important.  If you're looking to do any kind of wireless snooping (for testing out the security on your own newtork, of course), you'll need something else.  Almost every laptop these days comes with a built-in card, but a good Atheros based PCMCIA card is real cheap.  If you want to play around (say, to find rogue wireless APs on your university's network), you'll have to buy an Atheros.  D-Link makes one that I was very happy with.

Do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT buy an active laptop cooler.  Get one of the stands that holds it up off the desk a little bit, and purchase a copy of CPUIdle.  Active coolers with fans will cause you problems.  The laptop is perfectly capable of cooling itself provided that it has enough stand-off from the desk to draw in air.  Messing around with the CFM on the fans (which additional fans will do) burns them out.  Just keep it off your lap and on a hard surface that doesn't block airflow.  "Laptop" means that it's small enough to sit in your lap, not that it should.  Never rest it on any uneven fabric-covered surface (your lap, beds, chairs) without putting something under it.

lee n. field

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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2006, 04:07:10 PM »
Quote
Is gateway something to stay clear of? I recall hearing bad things from friends.
Gateway's got a tendancy to drop hardware support (as in they have no more parts) bare moments (so it seems) past the time they stop making something.

Quote
Our standard laptops were Dell and Compaq.  Dell was a delight to deal with.
Their server support is good.  My guess is the support for their business grade systems (Optiplex desktops.  not sure which laptop.) is good but I think support for the consumer grade systems (Dementia) still goes to the lowest bidder in India.

Compaq -- If I've got to deal with anybody except server support, I shudder.  Even service centers get the cluless Level I people 12 time zones away.
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2006, 07:35:12 PM »
Macbook or Macbook Pro