What a switch!

[280plus]

CO will replace the O2 in your bloodstream and suffocate you from the inside out. CO2 will displace O2 in the room and suffocate you from the outside in. Either way...

[K Frame]

CO is also an accumulative poison, CO2 is not. It bonds so tightly with the haemaglobin in the blood that it's virtually impossible to remove it. It can take weeks for CO to fully clear from someone's blood.

[280plus]

Out of curiosity, does that make it a toxin or is the fact that it precludes O2 molecules from the hemoglobin it's only effect? I guess it is refered to as being toxic.

[Ron]

Out of curiosity, does that make it a toxin or is the fact that it precludes O2 molecules from the hemoglobin it's only effect? I guess it is refered to as being toxic.

When I went for my lung capacity test they used CO to check your O2 uptake.

You put a mask on and they gave you a mixture of 02 and CO then measured the CO in the bloodstream.

Apparently the reason it is so dangerous is because our bodies don't recognize CO as being different than 02 so it gets absorbed as if it was 02.  

[Tallpine]

I can think of worse ways to go ....

[K Frame]

Well, the common medical term is carbon monoxide poisoning. But, going by standard dictionary definitions, it is a toxin because it is poisonous.

Other than its ability to preclude oxygen from haemoglobin, I believe it's an inert gas.

[Grandpa Shooter]

CO poisoning can be treated at any hospital with a hyperbaric chamber.  The process is quite easily done with the right equipment.  There was a case recently where an entire family had to be treated in Phoenix due to an improperly installed natural gas furnace.

If I were to spend the time required assessing the risk factors present in every day life and assigning some number from 1 to 10, 1 being low and 10 being high, I don't honestly think the remote possibility of CO poisoning would even make the list.  The odds are much higher of sliding off the road on the way to town and freezing to death at a wind chill of -20, than falling asleep and never waking up again.

Hell, even going into the horse stable to clean up the frozen apples has a higher risk factor!  Risk is something you live with, assuming you actually intend to LIVE!

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if your camper is like the ones i lived in you get more than sufficent "air exchange" on the plus side if you take a glass of icewater to bed the cubes get bigger over nite. i think the only thing might be problematic is a nite with absolutely no breeze or if enough ice builds up on inside walls windows and doors to seal the place up

[K Frame]

Your risk factors I really don't care about.

It's the attitude you express to others who may not realize the dangerous of carbon monoxide that's the problem.

Sort of like the idiot I saw at the range years ago who was loading his muzzleloader from a 1 pound can of black powder.... while smoking.

Carbon Monoxide poisoning can be treated either through 100% oxygen therapy, or in severe cases hyperbaric therapy, but treatment is not analagous to an easy cure or easy recovery.

Here's what I suggest if you need more heat during the worst of winter.

Get a short-cut 55-gallon steel drum, and put into it 2 or 3 rolls of toilet paper. Pour over the toilet paper a quart or two of used motor oil, and light it up.

Make sure all of the doors and windows are tightly closed so you don't lose any of that precious heat. You'll have all the heat you need for the rest of your life.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Your risk factors I really don't care about.

It's the attitude you express to others who may not realize the dangerous of carbon monoxide that's the problem.

Sort of like the idiot I saw at the range years ago who was loading his muzzleloader from a 1 pound can of black powder.... while smoking.

Carbon Monoxide poisoning can be treated either through 100% oxygen therapy, or in severe cases hyperbaric therapy, but treatment is not analagous to an easy cure or easy recovery.

Here's what I suggest if you need more heat during the worst of winter.

Get a short-cut 55-gallon steel drum, and put into it 2 or 3 rolls of toilet paper. Pour over the toilet paper a quart or two of used motor oil, and light it up.

Make sure all of the doors and windows are tightly closed so you don't lose any of that precious heat. You'll have all the heat you need for the rest of your life.

You just can't leave it alone can you.  Ok you can have the last word since it means so much to you.  What I talk about is my business.  If you want to start up a counseling center for those who don't have any sense, feel free.

[K Frame]

"You just can't leave it alone can you."

You were the one whose bad-bearing-like whining kicked this off.


"If you want to start up a counseling center for those who don't have any sense, feel free."

We have Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, and half-day Fridays blocked off for you for the foreseeable future.

[Ron]

Both of ya's add a certain something to the forum here IMHO.

It would kinda be nice if we could get past the CO wars and find something else to beat to death.

Not to get involved, where I have no dog in the fight, so to speak.

I want everyone to be happy posters and not die of CO exposure :D

(As a HVAC guy CO is not something I take lightly)

[Perd Hapley]

Cornbread, anyone?

[280plus]

Tiptoes back out of room, closes door quietly...

[roo_ster]

Tiptoes back out of room, closes door quietly...

Cluck cluck cluck... 


Hmm, I agree totally with MI WRT the general wisdom of un-vented propane heaters.

OTOH, GS has mitigated that risk to a great extent:
  1. Leaky RV
  2. CO detector
  3. O2 sensor and auto shut-off if O2 dips
  4. Leaves a small window vent open to outside

Not the route I would take(1), but GS is all grown up and has no minor children dependent on him.

As far as "It's the attitude you express to others..." I think MI is way off his meds.  MI's attitude is much more poisonous and likely to get one in trouble IRL than is GS's supposed insouciance, especially since, "...others who may not realize the dangerous of carbon monoxide that's the problem," would have to ignore every other post on this very thread speaking to the dangers of CO in addition to GS concrete steps addressing that risk.

Misanthropy trumps an elderly person's greater risk-insensitivity in destructive consequences every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Anyways, this has been discussed on THR before and every time the risks associated with non-vented propane heaters has been brought up.  Anyone who goes out and offs themselves with a heater like GS's after reading any one of those threads does so in the face of near-complete awareness of the risks involved.




(1) I'd vent to the outside anyways.  I have minor children and my tolerance for risk where they are involved is lower than GS's toward his own self and his wife.  Risk-sensitivity naturally fluctuates with age, life circumstances, and other factors.  I'm not going to excoriate someone who makes an informed decision, looks at the bottom line, and comes to a different decision based on a different risk sensitivity.

[Tallpine]

Here is my solution:

You are ignoring this user.

 



Anyway, it's 25 degrees above zero this morning and gloriously warm 

I had to take my coat off while shoveling horse manure. 

[Grandpa Shooter]

Here is my solution:

 



Anyway, it's 25 degrees above zero this morning and gloriously warm 

I had to take my coat off while shoveling horse manure. 

Ignore button duly set to ON.  That is all.

[280plus]

Cluck cluck cluck... 

I'm thinking you're not too familiar with the legend of the cornbread. I'd rather take on a mall full of AK-47ed terrorists with my P-32 than get anywhere NEAR that mess. 

 

[roo_ster]

I'm thinking you're not too familiar with the legend of the cornbread. I'd rather take on a mall full of AK-47ed terrorists with my P-32 than get anywhere NEAR that mess. 

 

I vaguely recall this cornbread thread. 

Harrumph.  I do suppose that if I go "where only fools dare" I may also be a fool.  I'd dispute that, though, since I don't require a dare and do it for s***s and giggles...

[Brad Johnson]

Pancakes, baby!

Brad

[280plus]

I vaguely recall this cornbread thread. 

Harrumph.  I do suppose that if I go "where only fools dare" I may also be a fool.  I'd dispute that, though, since I don't require a dare and do it for s***s and giggles...

I don't know nothin' 'bout all that I'm just staying me's away from any cornbread that might be floatin' around in here. Not cause I'm skeered but cause I gots smarts. I know cause my mom says so.

[Jamisjockey]

The "P" still stands for polite last I checked.

[KD5NRH]

Did you learn about the differences between CO and CO2?

CO kills you exactly to death
CO2 kills you exactly to death
COLD kills you exactly to death, and hurts all the way there.

[seeker_two]

Cornbread, anyone?

Cornbread....ain't nothin' wrong with that....  



If this discussion goes any farther, I would like to suggest that Grandpa be placed in a room full of CO and Irwin be placed in a room full of CO₂ and then we see who's righter?....

[sanglant]

i'm in a room full of co and co2 now, nothing is happening. i must be doing something wrong.