Author Topic: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting  (Read 13343 times)

RJMcElwain

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2009, 02:31:31 PM »
And the liberals say civilians shouldn't have guns because we might do something irresponsible with them.

How about this knucklehead?

He gives Cops a bad name.
Robert J. McElwain
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"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

K Frame

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2009, 11:16:22 AM »
He was peacefully asking the Senator a question. I don't see how asking Senator's question earns you a faceful of fist.

Wrong.

He peacefully asked the Senator a question, then continued on when told that his question had been asked and answered and that he had to surrender the floor to the next questioner.

Mr. Don't Taze Me! adamantly refused to yield the floor and became combative.

That's why he ended up getting his minimum daily requirement of 50,000 volts.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

geronimotwo

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2009, 11:44:09 AM »
Wrong.

He peacefully asked the Senator a question, then continued on when told that his question had been asked and answered and that he had to surrender the floor to the next questioner.

Mr. Don't Taze Me! adamantly refused to yield the floor and became combative.

That's why he ended up getting his minimum daily requirement of 50,000 volts.

yea, the police played right into his hands there. what better way to get over 3 million hits on you tube.  [sarcasm on] obviously they didn't use enough voltage, "cause he was still able to yell, squirm and make the other folks there feel so very uncomfortable. [sarcasm off]

back to the original posting.....


make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2009, 11:45:49 AM »
Wrong.

He peacefully asked the Senator a question, then continued on when told that his question had been asked and answered and that he had to surrender the floor to the next questioner.

Mr. Don't Taze Me! adamantly refused to yield the floor and became combative.

That's why he ended up getting his minimum daily requirement of 50,000 volts.

I saw the video. He delayed in answering the 'order' to leave about ten seconds. He was already leaving when they dropped him to the ground and gave him 50,000 Volts.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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K Frame

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2009, 11:53:03 AM »
You apparently didn't see the whole video, then.

What you saw was apparently the edited version.

It was no 10 seconds that he delayed, and he refused the order to yield the floor at least four times, including at least once from campus police.

He also became combative when campus police attempted to escort him OUT of the hall. He was asked to leave because of his disrupting the forum by refusing to yield the floor.

Looks like you got hold of a copy of the video that was edited to cast him in a good light and campus police in a bad light.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Uncle Bubba

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2009, 01:04:34 PM »
I saw the video. He delayed in answering the 'order' to leave about ten seconds. He was already leaving when they dropped him to the ground and gave him 50,000 Volts.


If by "I saw the video" you mean the one jackdanson posted a link to in his post then (to reiterate what I said before and Irwin just said again) what you saw was the end of the incident. If you watch it again look at the two officers and the man in a suit just behind the dipstick. The two uniforms are obviously waiting for the word to take the guy away, the man in the suit is seen to wave the edge of his hand across his throat - the universal sign for "cut it off now!" - and all three are obviously exasperated. There's also the clapping and cheering to be heard from the audience when the uniforms finally move to take him away. All that means he'd worn out his welcome before the clip started. Search YouTube, or just look to the list on the right of the page,  and you'll find the whole thing and see what an ass he made of himself.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 01:09:55 PM by Uncle Bubba »
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MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2009, 01:12:45 PM »
I saw mutliple videos of the incident filmed from different angles, actually, some two minutes, some five minutes long. Some have video of him yapping on and on and on about Kerry, others have it omitted.

From the time the cops start evicting him and to the time to the moment he starts moving out of the building in weird long hops, with cops still leading him, it's about ten to fifteen seconds, depending on which video you watch. By the time they tumble him down to the floor and sit on him he is already been cooperative. Then they taze him, several seconds AFTER he has been subdued and has at least one guy sitting on every extremity. There's no point of tazing a man that's been so restrained.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Uncle Bubba

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2009, 01:22:37 PM »
OK Micro, that clears some of it up. I still don't understand your attitude, though.  "Cooperative" is not a word to be applied to his actions at any point. He was rude to Kerry, rude and belligerent to the organizers when they tried to get him to stop, he struggled and resisted from the moment the first hand was laid on him until he got hit with the TASER. How can any of that be described as "cooperative"?

I do agree, though, that TASER-ing him was unnecessary. The only purpose I could see for it was to "teach him a lesson". Whatever happened to cops doing that in the back of the squad car or in a hallway at HQ, away from prying eyes and (now) video cameras?
It's a strange world. Some people get rich and others eat *expletive deleted*it and die. Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

Quote from: Fly320s
But, generally speaking, people are idiots outside their own personal sphere.

MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2009, 01:26:57 PM »
By cooperative I mean the fact that, starting with about ten seconds after the cops grab him, he starts moving out of the hall. He's moving in some REALLY strange hops, but he's moving, rather than being dragged along by the cops.

I cannot really hear what he's asking Kerry, but as far as I understand, it can be summed up as some random conspiracy crap, and asking Kerry (in essence), if he opposes Bush, why didn't he challenge the election results in 2004 or move to impeach Bush later.  It's possible that something rude was said. Kerry seems to be just about to answer him when the beatdown is delivered - he says something about 'wait, wait, I want to answer him'.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Uncle Bubba

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2009, 01:47:10 PM »
Those "strange hops" were caused by him jumping while he was being pushed by one of the cops. He wasn't leaving on his own. And it was too late for Kerry to answer, the ball had opened by then.
It's a strange world. Some people get rich and others eat *expletive deleted*it and die. Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

Quote from: Fly320s
But, generally speaking, people are idiots outside their own personal sphere.

Angel Eyes

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2009, 02:54:30 PM »

The response by U of F police is amusing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPmJNQQmp_A

"Oh dude, I messed myself."











(Yes, I know it's not really UF police)



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MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2009, 03:23:49 PM »
Those "strange hops" were caused by him jumping while he was being pushed by one of the cops. He wasn't leaving on his own.

That's not what it looks like to me, but I will not argue this point - IIRC you have military training and probably know more about such things than I do.

Regardless, by the time of the tazing, he is already restrained. Do you agree with that?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

roo_ster

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2009, 04:05:37 PM »
That's not what it looks like to me, but I will not argue this point - IIRC you have military training and probably know more about such things than I do.

Regardless, by the time of the tazing, he is already restrained. Do you agree with that?

[satire]Well, yeah, sure.  He gave them a hard time and deserves a little street auditorium justice for making them get up and move around.[/satire]
Regards,

roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2009, 04:19:35 PM »
[satire]Well, yeah, sure.  He gave them a hard time and deserves a little street auditorium justice for making them get up and move around.[/satire]

Remember, citizen, weird guys who bring up weird points are unpeople! Only ordinary, tie-suit-wearing people are actually persons!
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Uncle Bubba

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Re: 'Excessive force' claimed in BART shooting
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2009, 10:35:39 PM »


That's not what it looks like to me, but I will not argue this point - IIRC you have military training and probably know more about such things than I do.

Regardless, by the time of the tazing, he is already restrained. Do you agree with that?


Yes, I do. I said it a few posts earlier and in other places here, too.

Too many cops use the TASER as a first resort, and/or as punishment. It has its uses, but saving the cops from getting dirty or breaking a nail isn't on the list. Sometimes you have to throw down, and that'll get you dirty (usually) and hurt (sometimes), but that's just part of the job.

Yes, I was in the military, Army Infantry, but more importantly to a discussion like this I was a security officer for twenty years (and worked as a bouncer from time to time the while). I worked in some nice places, and I worked in places that could best be described as where God would do the insertion if He were going to give the planet an enema.

I fought with more than a few and subdued many more, and when I see something like that vid I think, "Those people aren't trained to be police officers (or security officers, as the case may be), they're trained to be courtesy officers." Watch how they act and react. Instead of getting control of him they're trying not to "escalate" the situation, the fact that he by his actions has already "escalated" it to the point where physical force must be used doesn't seem to have occurred to them. I've seen more than one with a badge have his ass handed to him in a fistfight, and heard of a few that were killed or permanently maimed in a gunfight, because of that attitude.
It's a strange world. Some people get rich and others eat *expletive deleted*it and die. Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

Quote from: Fly320s
But, generally speaking, people are idiots outside their own personal sphere.