Tragic death of a child in Oakland after surgery

[gunsmith]

the hospital would be on the hook for payment, that's why they are trying desperately to finish the kid off.
really why else hold on to the kid? why deny the "dead" kid nutrition?
tough cookies for the hospital, parents handed them a kid for a routine operation and they just get away with "oop's she's dead, stop pestering us with your silly demands peasant"

Beggars can't be choosers*.  If they are not paying the freight and the taxpayers of California are, pull the plug.







* Which is why the gov't seeks to beggar us.  See Obamacare for one example.

nope, hospital has insurance  - employee's screwed up, if they would simply honor the grieving mom's wishes I bet she would "let go" in a few months  .... but NOOOooooo - they gotta play hardball.  Instead they choose awful publicity and adding insult to injury and death.

They  screwed up they need to do their level best to make mom less sad, she will never be happy but they should cut her some dang slack.

last week they said they couldn't release the body without a suitable place, now that a place has been found they place new obstacles.
If it were me they were dealing with, I would be making their lives miserable.

One time a lady knocked over my motorcycle on my first day of work, it was either get it fixed or lose my job.
Her insurance company was playing hardball with me and I called her up and told her I will be moving in with her or because its her fault I do not have a job ...the insurance company coughed up the $$ to rent a bike in less then one hour.

I would be pounding on peoples doors at night, and worse, if they were doing to me what they're doing to this poor mom - staying with in legal limits you can still really really make trouble if you're determined.

the hospital could make an offer like "let us pay for a yr and go from there" I bet mom would grab it in a heartbeat- they are monsters for their shabby treatment of a grief stricken mom.

They are strictly concerned with the bottom line when they should be concerned about long term impact. as well as simple kindness to a grieving mom.
How many of you would bring your kids in that place for routine tonsillectomies?

[Fitz]

Why are we assuming a screw up, versus "operations are risky"

There's no such thing as routine surgery

[BobR]

Tonsillectomies bleed, they bleed a lot. Not only immediately post-op, but possibly 10-12 days later when the scab falls off of the surgery site. I have had more than one kid try to make the celestial transfer after having their tonsils removed. Hell, way back when, I was nearly one of them.

That being said, pointing the finger and trying to lay blame for this tragic occurrence is really kind of asinine. We have a young girl who is dead, a distraught family, a hospital who will not perform surgery on the body of the dead girl and all people want to do is lay blame.

I really don't know how long the body will hold out, as long as the heart is beating and O2 is being forcefully delivered, it could take a while. Cut off the artificial respiration and it won't take long, either she breaths or not. Doing a spontaneous respiration trial is not unheard of, but in this case would not be very prudent. If she were breathing on her own, she would also override the vent.

But, the bottom line is pretty simple. People die from routine surgery. In the case of a post op tonsil bleed, it is not that difficult for them to go unnoticed for a while, the child is swallowing the blood so it is possible to bleed a lot more than what it looks like. But, back to the surgery, the child needed it to overcome her tiredness, sleep apnea and incontinence ( http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/ ) so the parents made an informed decision, and signed a consent, and thought everything would be OK. I am sure, somewhere in that consent the issue of bleeding, and even death was covered. It is a tragic situation, but dead is dead, and no amount of time on a vent or in a special facility will change that. I don't think this family will come to that conclusion though, as always in the case of a loved one, you have to hold out hope, no matter how slim.

I hope this case wakes people up, going to a hospital will kill you. There are 99,000 deaths every year from hospital acquired infections. The majority of those are from improper hand hygiene by the staff, and even visitors. If you have to go into a hospital for anything, get out as soon as you can, if you have to stay, hopefully you have someone who can advocate for you. I almost feel sorry for the staff caring for my wife when she is in the hospital, then I realize who I am protecting and don't feel bad at all.

Well, there is my 2 cents worth.

bob

[Firethorn]

Well, it looks like the Schiavo's have gotten involved.

[dogmush]

"We have done everything to assist the family of Jahi McMath in their quest to take the deceased body of their daughter to another medical facility," hospital spokesman Sam Singer said.
"To date, they have been unwilling or unable to provide a physician to perform the procedures necessary, transportation, or a facility that would accept a dead person on a ventilator. Our hearts and thoughts go out to them in this tragic situation, but the statements being made by their attorney and some family members are misleading and untrue."

This does not sound to me like a Hospital trying to kill a mistake, but rather a place that knows it's futile and isn't going to itself waste resources.  I'm not at all surprised there aren't a lot of MD's willing to operate on a dead girl.


I also note that when trying to figure out what happened and who is doing what, the family can tell the press whatever they want, while the providers are extremely limited in what they can lawfully say.

[lupinus]

Yes, seriously.

Maybe you ought to have read my first post in this thread before hyperventilating at the keyboard.  Reading my subsequent posts would also have informed you that I have not determined if there is any fault to be apportioned, but that if anything fault-worthy occurred, it did occur at the hospital.  Referring to the hospital and its employees/proxies as "they" is a reasonable shorthand.

Oh, and your faith in hospitals and hospital staff is touching.  Yes, many times shinola is just going to happen or there is no way to foresee/prevent some event.  OTOH, I have some first-hand experience with some walking future lawsuits-in-scrubs, the sort that would give Millcreek an ulcer.  And my wife has prevented destitute folk from meeting their maker due to the actions of less-competent nurses & techs or marginally competent baby docs where she works.  But, like I wrote, beggars can't be choosers(1).  (Most folk where she works are not paying their way or insured, so the taxpayer foots the bill.)  Somebody has to finish last in the class (doc, nurse, tech) and they usually manage to find a job somewhere.


(1) And the cost of affirmative action is not just to passed-over job applicants. 

Except that inflamatory statements like "ZOMG THEY KILLED HER!!!" at this point is indeed inflamatory BS. Because at this point theres zero evidence there is any "they" to be found. When someone shows some evidence the hospital, their staff, or anyone medically involved screwed up hold them accountable. Till then it's inflamatory BS.

the hospital would be on the hook for payment, that's why they are trying desperately to finish the kid off.
really why else hold on to the kid? why deny the "dead" kid nutrition?
tough cookies for the hospital, parents handed them a kid for a routine operation and they just get away with "oop's she's dead, stop pestering us with your silly demands peasant"

Perhaps because it's unethical to perform surgery on a dead body? Of course it's more likely the evil dirty bastards running the hospital want the girl dead to cover up a screwup (that would likely easilly be found in an autopsy) than the girl was simply the unfortunate next in line to die in post op from a well understood complication. There is no such thing as a risk free surgery.

[roo_ster]

Except that inflamatory statements like "ZOMG THEY KILLED HER!!!" at this point is indeed inflamatory BS. Because at this point theres zero evidence there is any "they" to be found. When someone shows some evidence the hospital, their staff, or anyone medically involved screwed up hold them accountable. Till then it's inflamatory BS.

So?  Where have I accused the hospital of killing her? 

And there is a "they."  "They" being the hospital and staff as referred to by one or more posters in this thread.  Pronouns for the win.

[Hawkmoon]

So?  Where have I accused the hospital of killing her?  

And there is a "they."  "They" being the hospital and staff as referred to by one or more posters in this thread.  Pronouns for the win.

However:

1) "They" did not operate on her, a surgeon operated on her. That surgeon may or may not be an employee of the hospital but, most likely, he is not.

2) It is not been established as yet that anyone "killed" the child. As has been pointed out, all surgeries carry risks. It is possible that everyone did everything correctly, and that the kid died anyway. I can't see any way in which that equates to "they killed the kid." And it still doesn't answer the question of who "they" is. The head of the housekeeping department is a hospital employee. Is he/she part of "they"? The dietician is an employee of the hospital. Is he/she part of "they"? If so, what contribution did those individuals make to "killing" the kid? If not, since "they" then does not include all employees of the hospital, which employees constitute "they"?

[MillCreek]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/28/mother-girl-at-center-debate-over-brain-death-dies.html

In an ironic twist, Jahi McMath died this week from complications of surgery.  Recall it was complications of surgery that put her into brain death in the first place.

[Firethorn]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/28/mother-girl-at-center-debate-over-brain-death-dies.html

In an ironic twist, Jahi McMath died this week from complications of surgery.  Recall it was complications of surgery that put her into brain death in the first place.

She may have had some sort of an idiosyncratic reaction to something involved in surgeries, making them more risky for her.  Resulting in her brain death in the first surgery, and the final death with another.

As such, I wouldn't consider it ironic at all.

[Sindawe]

Unfortunately even the most routine surgery always has the ultimate risk...

Too true.  But often times that is not really internalized and understood until the worst happens.

[Hawkmoon]

She may have had some sort of an idiosyncratic reaction to something involved in surgeries, making them more risky for her.  Resulting in her brain death in the first surgery, and the final death with another.

As such, I wouldn't consider it ironic at all.

The irony is that she couldn't have died this week, because a coroner in California declared her dead several years ago. Her mother was still trying to have that declaration reversed. It would appear that the reversal petition is now mooted, but the mother may choose to continue pursuing it anyway due to ... whatever. Just to prove her point, perhaps.

[Pb]

Well, I think a lesson for us is- if you don't have a living will, make one as soon as possible so your relatives don't have to make awful decisions like this.

[Firethorn]

The irony is that she couldn't have died this week, because a coroner in California declared her dead several years ago. Her mother was still trying to have that declaration reversed. It would appear that the reversal petition is now mooted, but the mother may choose to continue pursuing it anyway due to ... whatever. Just to prove her point, perhaps.

There's a reason I specified brain death and final death.  Legal death would be what you're talking about.  Her legally having died last year is fine with me.  I track by brain/personality, not body.