Author Topic: 22 years on death row because  (Read 3124 times)

vaskidmark

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22 years on death row because
« on: March 14, 2013, 08:17:36 PM »
of five (5!) courts' screwups over the application of law regarding the fact tat the only witness (a police detective) probably lied and that the prosecution failed to disclose his historty of lying.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2013/03/14/07-99001%20web%20-%20corrected.pdf

The summmary pretty much covers it, but for those that want to get the real dirt the actual opinion reads like a rolling bitch slap to all five (5!) levels of courts that screwed up.

I wonder if she will sue the heck out of the detective, the prosecutor, and probably the police department.  Unfortunately, soverign immunity protects the judges.

Or maybe the state will be smart and offer her a million or so for each of the 22 years she spent on death row.  Doubt it, but you just never can tell when "doing the right thing without being forced to" will strike.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 08:34:37 PM »
That idiot cop needs to be in jail, rooming with tiny who will show him the "in's and outs" of prision life nightly.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


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Parker Dean

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 08:37:05 PM »
This is why I stopped supporting the Death Penalty. At least this one was caught, too many weren't.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 08:43:22 PM »
don't cry too hard for her
it was the testimony of her own family that sank her at trial
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 08:53:54 PM »
interestingly enough this "zomg the death penalty!!!" site brings up some of the things her family said about her at trial
In a discusssion session on April 10, 2001 SANDY claimed: "I witnessed first hand her abuse, both verbally and physically to that child, AND I also heard ON MANY OCCASIONS OUT OF HER OWN MOUTH how she wished Christopher was not in her life"

http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs/pickinpaughinterview.shtml#.UUJvgzd49bI
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Gewehr98

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 10:54:33 PM »
C&SD, why is your response so predictable?
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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MechAg94

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 11:45:39 PM »
C&SD, why is your response so predictable?
And anti-death penalty comment wasn't?  There are a lot of sad/disturbing cases out there. 

Where would this site be if we all agreed on everything?  =)
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Regolith

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 01:45:50 AM »
interestingly enough this "zomg the death penalty!!!" site brings up some of the things her family said about her at trial
In a discusssion session on April 10, 2001 SANDY claimed: "I witnessed first hand her abuse, both verbally and physically to that child, AND I also heard ON MANY OCCASIONS OUT OF HER OWN MOUTH how she wished Christopher was not in her life"

http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs/pickinpaughinterview.shtml#.UUJvgzd49bI

There's just one small problem with your theory. There are two men who actually confessed to killing the kid - James Styers, who was the mother's roommate, and his friend Roger Scott. BOTH denied that the mother was involved, and refused to testify against her. It seems to me that one or the other would have rolled on her in hopes of leniency rather than bear sole responsibility for the murder of a child.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

vaskidmark

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 02:47:37 AM »
interestingly enough this "zomg the death penalty!!!" site brings up some of the things her family said about her at trial
In a discusssion session on April 10, 2001 SANDY claimed: "I witnessed first hand her abuse, both verbally and physically to that child, AND I also heard ON MANY OCCASIONS OUT OF HER OWN MOUTH how she wished Christopher was not in her life"

http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs/pickinpaughinterview.shtml#.UUJvgzd49bI

OK, she was an evil mommy.  She may even have deserved to be in jail for some of the things she did.

But none of them rose to the level of capital crimes.

So, what's your point?

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 04:41:43 AM »
Try again they did not both deny her involvement. Its kinda interesting seeing troy davis with a white face and tits. And how that motivates the troops.its always bad when your family and friends believe you had your kid offed

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Regolith

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Re: Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 04:47:01 AM »
Try again they did not both deny her involvement.

Yes, they did. Neither would testify against her, and the only witness to one of them claiming that she was involved was the lying cop.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 05:27:45 AM »
Relying on just one source again? There are audio tapes  ironically made available through tjat same zomg site

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 06:22:32 AM »
More irony is the ruling sought by her defense a year or 2 ago that her confession was involuntary. You know the confession they now claim never happened. The nature of defense is to keep throwing stuff against the wall in the hooes somethibg will stick and save her life.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RevDisk

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 10:56:22 AM »
This is why I stopped supporting the Death Penalty. At least this one was caught, too many weren't.

I stopped supporting the death penalty for a couple reasons.

1. We have a legal system, not a Justice system. Unless you're stupid or blatantly caught, you can buy leniency. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. We, especially here on APS, don't like admitting it. No one with significant money is ending up on death row.

2. Unless you're very wealthy, the government is going to have the upper hand. They have significant more resources, and the deck is stacked against you. Nothing except integrity stops a prosecutor from throwing a laundry list of charges, and stepping on you until you plea bargain. Most public defenders will only try to get you a "fair" plea bargain, not a fair trial. Not saying justice can't or doesn't prevail. Just that the odds are or can be stacked against justice, if desired. The limiting factor is the personalities involved and the resources. Even governments are limited in time, people and budgets.

3. Forensics is largely as scientific as phrenology. And there is a staggering amount of room left for bias, fraud, prejudice and manipulation. There are some honest concrete exceptions (DNA, etc), IF properly applied. Forensics are good for convincing folks without science and statistic backgrounds. CSI shows have not helped matters. IT forensics is even less accurate than normal pseudo-science opinion based forensics, it's only useful for the very dumbest of parties or in cases where the suspect has no possible access (cell records, Google, etc).



Sigh. And again, C&SD, just because they are likely a bad person doesn't mean we shouldn't follow the rules. If we all got what we deserved, humanity would have been wiped out within a generation of developing consciousness.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

MechAg94

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 04:09:29 PM »
I don't think CD&D was trying to judge the person, but simply pointing out that things are not as clear as someon would think.  Few of these cases are. 

A few reasons why I don't go with those same reasons:  We have a system that is messed up in many cases or has been.  Ending the death penalty does not fix anything.  It only makes people feel better.  If the system is convicting the wrong people, nothing will change until the system is fixed.  IMO, wrongly imprisoning someone is not morally superior to wrongly executing them.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

just Warren

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2013, 05:11:37 PM »
Popehat weighs in.
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SteveS

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2013, 05:25:37 PM »
If the system is convicting the wrong people, nothing will change until the system is fixed.  IMO, wrongly imprisoning someone is not morally superior to wrongly executing them.


Somewhat that is executed is not in a position to do anything, while someone that is wrongfully imprisoned can be released.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2013, 06:01:20 PM »
I don't think CD&D was trying to judge the person, but simply pointing out that things are not as clear as someon would think.  Few of these cases are. 

A few reasons why I don't go with those same reasons:  We have a system that is messed up in many cases or has been.  Ending the death penalty does not fix anything.  It only makes people feel better.  If the system is convicting the wrong people, nothing will change until the system is fixed.  IMO, wrongly imprisoning someone is not morally superior to wrongly executing them.


No, it's exactly within his MO.  If you're a sleezeball, you don't deserve due process, and probably could use a tuneup by the popo when you're arrested to boot.
JD

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just Warren

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2013, 06:10:04 PM »
Yes, the arrested boot. Get arrested, get the boot. It's a free service.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2013, 12:09:04 PM »
     “We will be appealing this decision to the U.S. Supreme Court. If the Court takes the appeal, I will argue it personally as I have done in two previous cases over the past five months. In my last case, the Supreme Court accepted my argument and overruled the Ninth Circuit’s decision unanimously.

    In this case, Ms. Milke was found to have arranged the killing of her own son, a four-year-old toddler, because he was too much of a burden and interfering with her life. After dressing him up and telling him he was going to the mall to see Santa Claus, Milke was convicted of sending her young son off to be shot, execution style, in a desert wash.

    This is a horrible crime. The Ninth Circuit’s decision needs to be reversed, and justice for Christopher needs to be served.”


lots of background on this case
its kinda fun to see you fellers reacting to the same folks who defended troy davis so differently in this case, maybe fun is wrong word  revealing might be better


http://docfiles.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/arizona/azdce/2:1998cv00060/95419/195/0.pdf

It is further undisputed that in 1989 there was no requirement, under the policies and
procedures of the Phoenix Police Department, that interrogations be recorded or that officers
obtain a signed waiver. (
See
RT 1/11/10 at 24-26; RT 1/12/10 at 116, 119.)
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

kgbsquirrel

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2013, 02:23:12 PM »
...

Or maybe the state will be smart and offer her a million or so for each of the 22 years she spent on death row.  Doubt it, but you just never can tell when "doing the right thing without being forced to" will strike.

stay safe.

Ole boy got 15.5 million for being left in solitary for 22 months. Bump that estimate up to 8.5 million per year, and make it tax free (or just bump it up enough to cover whatever the taxes would be.) Ameliorate costs by seizing the assets of the liar, prosecutor and judges, and putting garnishments on all future wages.

(Not passing judgement on the person or whether or not they deserve it, just on the concept of malfeasance on the part of the courts and subsequent imprisonment.)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 02:26:53 PM by kgbsquirrel »

SteveS

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2013, 06:00:44 PM »
That idiot cop needs to be in jail, rooming with tiny who will show him the "in's and outs" of prision life nightly.

How was he not in jail?

From the COA decision:

"This history includes a five-day suspension for taking "liberties" with a female motorist and then lying about it to his supervisors; four court cases where judges tossed out confessions or indictments because Saldate lied under oath; and four cases where judges suppressed confessions or vacated convictions because Saldate had violated the Fifth Amendment or the Fourth Amendment in the course of interrogations. And it is far from clear that this reflects a full account of Saldate's misconduct as a police officer."

Motions to suppress are rarely granted.  I have heard stats that seem to show that one is granted for every 150 that are requested.  For this guy to be the source of so much misconduct is impressive.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2013, 06:07:08 PM »
read this  later pages detail stuff  after page 20 primarily but the end of page 5 into 8 is worth hitting too
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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vaskidmark

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Re: 22 years on death row because
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2013, 12:02:22 PM »
http://www.statesman.com/news/news/opinion/morton-case-spurring-changes-to-legal-system/nWsw5/

Quote
With more than 300 exonerations across the nation of people convicted and imprisoned for crimes they did not commit, we all have witnessed the limits of a criminal justice system flawed by human error — be that unintentional or intentional.

Nowhere more than in Texas has the weight of those imperfections been felt in cases that have tested public confidence in the criminal justice system and spurred big changes at the Legislature. That was true in the Timothy Cole case and is proving true in the Michael Morton case.

Morton’s testimony last week before the Texas Senate helped steer Senate Bill 825, prompted by his case, over a crucial hurdle. The bill aims to hold prosecutors accountable if they hide or suppress evidence from defendants. Morton’s lawyers claim prosecutors failed to turn over key evidence supporting Morton’s claim of innocence. Clearly, current laws are too lenient in punishing such practices, which not only are unethical, but illegal. The Legislature should pass the bill.

No one can give back freedoms, dignity or time stolen from people wrongfully convicted and imprisoned. But the Legislature can improve an imperfect system. It took action in the Cole case after the tragic details of Cole’s case went public. Cole, who died in prison in 1999 while serving a 25-year sentence for a rape he didn’t commit, was posthumously pardoned in 2010 by Gov. Rick Perry after DNA evidence cleared him and implicated another man who confessed to the crime.

In such cases, prosecutors should face imprisonment for the length of the defendant’s sentence, as well as being liable for money damages.

And in case you missed it
Quote
The bill aims to hold prosecutors accountable if they hide or suppress evidence from defendants.

Now, where have I seen that happen that we were discussing?

stay safe.

If Pro-Gunners were as violent as Anti-Gunners say they are, logic would dictate that there would be no Anti-Gunners left.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.