PO'd girls threaten rape victim for turning in her attackers

[vaskidmark]

According to a 2002 Bureau of Justice Study on sex offenders, the recidivism rate for sex offenders was 5.3% within 3 years of being released.  I was able to find a few other studies that went into longer time periods, but they were all within a few percentage points.  Obviously, the vast majority of these people are not doing it again.  I don't know if they are "cured" or just find other ways to control their urges.

The recidivism rate is defined three different ways - 1) those rearrested, 2) those convicted of the new charge, and 3) those actually sent/returned to prison.  The rates decline as you move from category to category.  http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=17   What has kept the recdivism rate (pick your category) low for sex offenders is the legal change in "the system" over the past ~ 15 years from return to the streets to civil incarceration.  http://lpr.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/3-4/221.full.pdf  Over the years the "definition" of violent sexual predator has changed, and one of the changes is the need to keep those units populated.  For some reason, "It's for the chillllllldrennnnn" and "If it saves just one person" do not seem to be well received by the bean counters who are looking at the coast of running a fully staffed facility for only two or three offenders.  Very much like what drove a lot of the deinstitutionalization of MH facilities in the 1970's, regardless of the BS you read about "civil rights" and "humanitarian" considerations.  There is a tipping point when it comes to keeping Hannibal Lechter locked up.

Getting back to sex offenders - those that are rearrested and convicted of new crimes are thought, like most other criminals, to have comitted more offenses than what they got caught for.  And finding sex offense victims who did not report the crime originally but are now willing to come forward is, shall we say, difficult.  It is even more difficult to get a conviction when the victim did not report the offense at the time it happened.

stay safe.

[vaskidmark]

I worked in that field, too.  I think it entirely depends on the person and there are some good treatment programs out there.  It is a lot of work for these people to get better and they have to be brutally honest with themselves.

And so many of those in mandatory treatment programs continue to insist they are not guilty, and further claim that admission of any other offense(s) before the satatute of limitations runs out violates their right against self incrimination.  Working in a state that has no statute of limitations for any felony, and working in a system that legally obligated the report of any known felony, made it difficult at best to have participants even achieve the checklist criteria for consideration for release from the program due to achievement of program goals.

But in spite of which, there are some excellent programs and some offenders who do "get better".  But the cost of those programs is enormous, even when compared to simple incarceration.  Stanton Samenow (of "the Criminal Personlity" fame) had a program in Virginia Beach for a few years.  The sucess rate was amazing (while the program lasted), but it was dependent on the offender remaining in treatment forever, at a cost of more than $300K per year.  You can imagine how few cases were referred there by  the courts or the Parole Board.  And a follow-up on those that had been in treatment showed that when treatment stopped the recidivism rate was about the same as for all other sex offenders with the exception of time to first reoffense being a bit longer.  (Suggesting the effects of the program carried on for a few years.)

Times are tight.  The states, unlike the feds, must balance their budgets.  Treatment, especially expensive treatment, for one of the lowest segments of society, is not going to get much consideration.  Thus, civil incarceration where they can just sit around and play cards or watch TV.

stay safe.

[vaskidmark]

What does a sociopath look like, as opposed to a feral?

http://tinyurl.com/aahkxug

17-year old shoots baby in the face.  Since he had already shot a few times into the ground, and them hit the mother in the ear and the upper leg, it does not seem he shotr the baby to convince the mother he really meant he wanted money.

Knowing the population, I hear a certain tone of voice when I read "Do you want me to shoot your baby?"  It's a tone that brings on nightmares in many folks.

stay safe.

[SteveS]

But in spite of which, there are some excellent programs and some offenders who do "get better".  But the cost of those programs is enormous, even when compared to simple incarceration. 

I only had a few sex offenders for clients, and this was years ago, so I don't remember what programs there are.  I do recall that they were like a lot of residential programs, very expensive ($60,000+/year) and most courts were unwilling to pay for them.  I don't remember any in my state (MI), though I think there was one in Indiana.

[Mannlicher]

The thing that  really pizzes me off, is the nationwide concern for the well being of the juvi perps.  Seems that society, and certainly the courts, value the interests of the criminal yute, over the interests of the victims of their crimes.
I have always felt that the age of the criminal should not be a factor in handing out punishment.  If the crime merits death or life in prison, so be it.  The age of the perp in no way mitigates the suffering of the victim, nor does treating the little miscreant with kidd gloves ameliorate  the damage done.

[vaskidmark]

The thing that  really pizzes me off, is the nationwide concern for the well being of the juvi perps.  Seems that society, and certainly the courts, value the interests of the criminal yute, over the interests of the victims of their crimes.
I have always felt that the age of the criminal should not be a factor in handing out punishment.  If the crime merits death or life in prison, so be it.  The age of the perp in no way mitigates the suffering of the victim, nor does treating the little miscreant with kidd gloves ameliorate  the damage done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq28qCklEHc

stay safe.

[T.O.M.]

The thing that  really pizzes me off, is the nationwide concern for the well being of the juvi perps.  Seems that society, and certainly the courts, value the interests of the criminal yute, over the interests of the victims of their crimes.
I have always felt that the age of the criminal should not be a factor in handing out punishment.  If the crime merits death or life in prison, so be it.  The age of the perp in no way mitigates the suffering of the victim, nor does treating the little miscreant with kidd gloves ameliorate  the damage done.

I cannot agree with this fully.  Age must come into consideration for young offenders.  Should I sentence a 12 year old who shoplifts an item from a store to the same year in jail as I would a 35 year old?  That said, I find it almost painful how the law treats age.  In Ohio, commit a crime the day before your 18th birthday, you go to Juvi.  Here's the rub.  Because it's a Juvi case, I cannot send this adult to an adult jail or prison.  But, because he' now factually an adult, I cannot send him tok a juvenile facility.  Best I can do is house arrest with an ankle monitor.

[MillCreek]

I know very little about sex offenders and the like, but I sure am learning a lot of interesting things from this thread.  Washington was one of the pioneers of the civil commitment of sex offenders, and I occasionally read about one of them being released from the center on McNeil island.  I don't know what the recidivism rate is, though. 

[vaskidmark]

I cannot agree with this fully.  Age must come into consideration for young offenders.  Should I sentence a 12 year old who shoplifts an item from a store to the same year in jail as I would a 35 year old?  That said, I find it almost painful how the law treats age.  In Ohio, commit a crime the day before your 18th birthday, you go to Juvi.  Here's the rub.  Because it's a Juvi case, I cannot send this adult to an adult jail or prison.  But, because he' now factually an adult, I cannot send him tok a juvenile facility.  Best I can do is house arrest with an ankle monitor.

Ohio does not do transfer hearings?  Everything done before 18 is a juvi offense, including rape, murder, arson?

I was not thrilled when Virginia lowered the age to 14 for a person to be eligible be tried as an adult.  But by no means are all 14-year olds transferred to adult court.  And there are a few under-10 year olds thart I would rather see get strung up on a tree and then have a fair trial.

Getting to your 12 year old shoplifter - first offense = stern talking to by probation officer with threat of dire consequences if he returns on another criminal charge.  Second offense = a few hundred hours of community service shoveling poop at the animal shelter or washing fire trucks/learning to roll hose.  Third offense = just enough juvi prison time to make him very uncomfortable, but not long enough for the gangs to recruit him (30 - 90 days).  After that he's a career criminal.  Supreme Court says I can send him to adult prison but cannot let him mingle with the big boys till he actually turns 18.  Solitary is such a drag.

stay safe.

[Tallpine]

I'm not sure that a couple of drunken teenage boys fondling a drunken teenage girl are necessarily "sex offenders" in the usual meaning of the term 

[TechMan]

I'm not sure that a couple of drunken teenage boys fondling a drunken teenage girl are necessarily "sex offenders" in the usual meaning of the term  

They penetrated her with their fingers and by OH law that is defined as rape.

[Tallpine]

They penetrated her with their fingers and by OH law that is defined as rape.

Ok, that's pushing it pretty far.

Based on a certain individual that I unfortunately know, shoot both of them and be done with it.

[Boomhauer]

What it comes down to is they damn well knew they were doing wrong.

And didn't care.

[T.O.M.]

Ohio does not do transfer hearings?  Everything done before 18 is a juvi offense, including rape, murder, arson?

I was not thrilled when Virginia lowered the age to 14 for a person to be eligible be tried as an adult.  But by no means are all 14-year olds transferred to adult court.  And there are a few under-10 year olds thart I would rather see get strung up on a tree and then have a fair trial.

Getting to your 12 year old shoplifter - first offense = stern talking to by probation officer with threat of dire consequences if he returns on another criminal charge.  Second offense = a few hundred hours of community service shoveling poop at the animal shelter or washing fire trucks/learning to roll hose.  Third offense = just enough juvi prison time to make him very uncomfortable, but not long enough for the gangs to recruit him (30 - 90 days).  After that he's a career criminal.  Supreme Court says I can send him to adult prison but cannot let him mingle with the big boys till he actually turns 18.  Solitary is such a drag.

stay safe.

Ohio has transfers (bindovers) for felony cases only, with a lot of hoops to jump through.  Until convicted, even after a bindover, the kid sits in juvi.  Commit a misdemeanor the day before age 18, you're a minor for all court proceedings amd punishment.

As to solitary, the feds have very strict rules about when and how long you can put a minor in seclusion.  Heck, for that matter, they're starting to put reatrictions on when a minor can even be locked up.  Have to show (1) threat to sfaety of self or others, (2) lack of suitable parental supervision, (3) risk to abscond.  Some courts have ruled that the threat to abscond finding can only be based on a prior history of running, and the risk to self or others mus be based on prior history as well.  Hell, I just watched arguments in an appeal the other day where a kid on his fifth probation viiolation on a Felonious Assault conviction was sent to DYS was a violation of the kid's rights against cruel and unusual punishment, because he's just 15.

My point?  Don't know.  Spent the day hearing a child abuse custody case were six week old twins ended up in the hospital with broken ribs and internal injuries.  Dad claimed they did it to each other.  Mom walked in with black eyes and a broken nose.  Yet he cusses me out for destroying his family when I granted custody to CPS.  I need a beer and range time.

No wonder so many people think juvenile court is a joke.