Colorado Shooter - Life Without Parole

[Ben]

I'm not opposed to hard labor, he could be breaking big rocks into little rocks for the rest of his life.

The problem is that we don't have mass murderers doing hard labor. Just look at Charles Manson.

I suppose there's always the Dahmer alternative, where somebody in the prison population whacks him. That kind of takes responsibility away from the people (us) that should be doing that though.

[charby]

The problem is that we don't have mass murderers doing hard labor. Just look at Charles Manson.

...because I'm not in charge. :)

[lupinus]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

Sure.

[Firethorn]

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

Probably, yeah.

Some of the described methods, though, I would want nothing to do with, and would prefer to substitute '.45ACP to the brain' instead.

[vaskidmark]

The problem is that we don't have mass murderers doing hard labor. Just look at Charles Manson.

.

...because I'm not in charge. :)

More like SCOTUS ruled hard labor to be cruel and unusual and made the prisons cut it out.

At one time, IIRC, hard labor at Ft. Levenworth (the military prion) was sewing mail bags for the USPS.  And getting paid for it.

The last time I know of anybody getting away with making little rocks out of big rocks was the Disciplinary Platoon at MDRD San Diego, where I was TAD as a guard between schools on base in 1969.  M-W-F they hand mixed concrete and poured it into 20'x10'x6' forms.  T-Th-Sat they broke the cured pads into concrete dust they used to mix the next week.  Sitting on a lifeguard chair wearing a tropical (Jungle Jim) helmet and cradling a 12-guage while they sweated and looked through the fence at the plans taking off from Lindberg Field.  (There may have been other folks doing it after that - I just don't know about them.)

stay safe.

[RoadKingLarry]

I saw some rock breakers at the Navy brig in Groton as late as '88-'89. The brig backed up to a big ole outcrop of native granite. the rock breakers were slowly enlarging the yard.

[Scout26]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

You forgot being drawn and quartered.  But yes, I could do it.  The a-hole that's the subject of this thread, the guy that shot Cong. Giffords, Jeffrey Dahmer, the two boys in OK, the guy in Montana that killed the family who stopped to help, child molesters.    You name the method and I'll follow through with the punishment.  

Remember, I sat on a jury where a mother abused and killed her 5 year old daughter.  I had to look at the autopsy photos of a cute little girl systematically starved and beaten to death.    

So yeah, I could have executed the mom and then have slept well that night and every night thereafter.   Sadly, Illinois had abolished the death penalty, so the judge could only give her 40 years.

[SADShooter]

You forgot being drawn and quartered.  But yes, I could do it.  The a-hole that's the subject of this thread, the guy that shot Cong. Giffords, Jeffrey Dahmer, the two boys in OK, the guy in Montana that killed the family who stopped to help, child molesters.    You name the method and I'll follow through with the punishment.  

Remember, I sat on a jury where a mother abused and killed her 5 year old daughter.  I had to look at the autopsy photos of a cute little girl systematically starved and beaten to death.    

So yeah, I could have executed the mom and then have slept well that night and every night thereafter.   Sadly, Illinois had abolished the death penalty, so the judge could only give her 40 years.

Damn. I'm sorry, but thank you for taking that hit for the team.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I would not object to capital juries being told that one of them would be chosen to administer the sentence

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[Tallpine]

I would not object to capital juries being told that one of them would be chosen to administer the sentence

Might solve the problem of people not wanting to serve on juries 

[De Selby]

There's something different about a guy who shoots up a theatre because he thinks he's batman, and a guy who kills his ex wife because he's pissed off.  Getting all blood thirsty for revenge on a guy who sees things and hears voices just makes no sense.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Not blood thirsty. Practical. Never wanna share a cell with em


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[SADShooter]

There's something different about a guy who shoots up a theatre because he thinks he's batman, and a guy who kills his ex wife because he's pissed off.  Getting all blood thirsty for revenge on a guy who sees things and hears voices just makes no sense.

You are imputing an emotional reaction where it doesn't necessarily exist. Your world view is your business, but don't blame us because you reflexively assume the worst of people with contrary views and then expect to be taken seriously but are not.

[Tallpine]

There's something different about a guy who shoots up a theatre because he thinks he's batman, and a guy who kills his ex wife because he's pissed off.  Getting all blood thirsty for revenge on a guy who sees things and hears voices just makes no sense.

Yeah, the latter might actually reform 

So - you think our legal system farked up because he was actually determined to be sane enough to stand trial 

I guess that's your opinion, but if he's sane enough to be tried then he's sane enough to be executed.

[De Selby]

Yeah, the latter might actually reform  

So - you think our legal system farked up because he was actually determined to be sane enough to stand trial  

I guess that's your opinion, but if he's sane enough to be tried then he's sane enough to be executed.

We're talking about execution here tallpine, not locking the guy away.  There are very good reasons to keep these folks out of society - there are really no good reasons to visit retribution on them.  The retributive part of the criminal justice system should be reserved for people who chose to do wrong, not for people who have completely lost the plot and are obviously ill.

The legal system is farked because it doesn't distinguish between the two at the moment.

Something you should be aware of is that it's possible for people who are found incompetent to stand trial to be treated to minimal sanity and then tried....and convicted of the crime, even though they committed the crime in a state that left them incompetent to stand trial!

"Insanity" essentially has no legal meaning anymore - no criminal defense lawyer in America wants to run that defense, because it virtually cannot succeed.  That is definitely a problem.  I like to show the videos of aileen wournos before her execution as an example....you have to be wilfully committed to executing the lame and dumb to watch that and think "yep, she's sane enough to get he needle."

[Tallpine]

We're talking about execution here tallpine, not locking the guy away.  There are very good reasons to keep these folks out of society - there are really no good reasons to visit retribution on them.  The retributive part of the criminal justice system should be reserved for people who chose to do wrong, not for people who have completely lost the plot and are obviously ill.

The legal system is farked because it doesn't distinguish between the two at the moment.

So in addition to being an attorney in Australia, you are also a psychiatric MD who has examined the defendant

[De Selby]

So in addition to being an attorney in Australia, you are also a psychiatric MD who has examined the defendant

I'm an Attorney in America, and I can tell you with confidence that in no jurisdiction is a medical diagnosis of mental illness enough to complete a defense of insanity.

[cordex]

The retributive part of the criminal justice system should be reserved for people who chose to do wrong, not for people who have completely lost the plot and are obviously ill.

Locking someone up until they die is not retributive?

[De Selby]

Locking someone up until they die is not retributive?

Not necessarily, no.

[Perd Hapley]

Attorney in America...

Sounds like a TV show.

Did you move to the States, or do you just mean you're credentialed to practice law here?

[De Selby]

Sounds like a TV show.

Did you move to the States, or do you just mean you're credentialed to practice law here?

It's my home and I'm licensed there.  I live away though.

[Balog]

In some cases there is none. In cases where there is no doubt as to their guilt and the crime is appropriately heinous, execution.

The problem I have with that is twofold. First, how do we define it legally when it's ok to do X because this time we're really sure he did it? Second, there's already a problem with convicting based on faulty or non existent evidence as a way for prosecutors to pad their resume. Creating a "really super mega guilty" category would just mean that those same innocent people would get convicted under that, and a bunch more innocent people would be convicted under the old standard because it would be perceived as less serious. "Well, I'm not really convinced he's guilty so I can't convict him of being mega guilty, but he probably did it so let's lock him up for life."

I don't disagree in theory but I am worried about the execution, pun intended.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I'm an Attorney in America, and I can tell you with confidence that in no jurisdiction is a medical diagnosis of mental illness enough to complete a defense of insanity.

Nor should it be.

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[vaskidmark]

It's my home and I'm licensed there.  I live away though.

Are you filling the position there vacated by Joseph (Joe) Morrisey?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Morrissey and http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/red-faces-as-court-rejects-silkysmooth-lawyer/2006/04/26/1145861419459.html

stay safe.

[TommyGunn]

I'm an Attorney in America, and I can tell you with confidence that in no jurisdiction is a medical diagnosis of mental illness enough to complete a defense of insanity.

Is the medical profession somehow obliged to adopt the definition of "insanity" the legal profession uses?  Or, perhaps I should ask is the legal profession obliged to adopt the same definition of insanity the medical profession uses?
I thought to be legally "insane" the  ... "defendant" must not understand the quality and or nature of his actions.  In other words, if someone thinks he's picking daffodils when, in reality, he's stabbing his aunt Martha to death with a kitchen knife, he's insane.
The medical profession tends to use more case specific terminology ... I don't think, unless I am mistaken, that "insane" is actually even a legitimate medical diagnosis.  Sorta like the word "crazy."
Perhaps the reason why "insanity" is unpopular is that it so rarely works.  Just because one might be "mentally ill" doesn't mean he doesn't know the difference between picking daffodils and stabbing relatives to death.