High Gas Prices Driving Midsize SUVs to Extinction

[Tallpine]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365714,00.html

For large SUVs, such as the Chevrolet Suburban and for Ford Expedition, sales declines have also been huge. But automakers are betting they will survive  in smaller numbers  because of large families that need the space and people who tow boats and campers.

This has been my argument all along - why the heck would anyone drive an Exploder that gets 18mpg when they could drive a newer Suburban/pickup that gets 19-20mpg

The pickups are never going away.  There will always be contractors and farmers and ranchers who need them.

[Perd Hapley]

This has been my argument all along - why the heck would anyone drive an Exploder that gets 18mpg when they could drive a newer Suburban/pickup that gets 19-20mpg?

Lower price?

The Exploder is easier to maneuver in crowded parking lots?

The smaller SUV looks like less of a gas-guzzler? 

[Tallpine]

The smaller SUV looks like less of a gas-guzzler?

That's what I think - it makes them feel better 

[Brad Johnson]

Given the huge rebates and incentives we're seeing for trucks and SUVs, here's some number crunching that makes things verrrrrry interesting...

For the purpose of this exercise we presume both vehicles have been financed for 5 years at 5.9% interest.  We also presume that both vehicles are driven 15,000 miles per year, and that gasoline is $4 per gallon.

Mid-sized sedan
$30,000 purchase price
Average economy 30mpg
Annualized payments = $6943.08 ($578.89 per month)
Annual fuel expense = $2000 (500 gal @ $4)
Total annual ownership expense = $8943.08

4dr pickup
$20,000 purchase price
Average economy 15mpg
Annualized payments = $4628.76 ($385.73 per month)
Annual fuel expense = $4000 (1000 gal @ $4)
Total ownership expense = $8628.76

The truck is less to own, larger, safer, more comfortable, more utilitarian, and possibly less to insure.  Now factor in that manufacturers are giving zero interest SIX year loans on trucks and the diff becomes even more marked.

Brad

[Perd Hapley]

And don't trucks retain more value as used vehicles? 

[Gewehr98]

It depends.

Right now you couldn't trade in a FSP (Fuel-Sucking Pig) of a truck or SUV to save your posterior. Dealers don't want 'em, and if they do take them in on trade, you're not going to get what you expected for trade-in value.   

Most economic advisors have been stating that you should just keep them, especially if they're already paid off.  Their logic is that the drop in resale value coupled with the expense of a new vehicle really doesn't offset the cost of higher fuel prices were you to just keep the vehicle in good mechanical condition. 

[Brad Johnson]

Most economic advisors have been stating that you should just keep them, especially if they're already paid off.

Buying a new fuel-efficient vehicle to replace your used-but-paid-for-and-reliable guzzler is like spending a dollar to save 30 cents.  And I see people do it all the time.

Not me.  I know how to use a calculator.

Brad

[The Annoyed Man]

A couple of observations.
Truck sales are in the toilet.Our sales manager has been heard to say that our year to date sales figures(new) are comparable to our January 2007 sales figures.

A new 2008 is worth 35-40% less after its driven off the lot.

Four door (GM) fullsize trucks start in the mid $30,000s.*I can't speak for the other guys.The Canyon/Colorado just doesn't sell.Period.Too many people think their fugly.Replacing the S-10/15 body w/an Avalanche derivative didn't help sales.


*At least the ones most people buy.Fleets are a whole nuther animal.Vinyl/rubber/plastic interiors w/FM radio & A/C aren't enough for 99% of new truck buyers.& the plastic ain't that nice,believe me.

It is funny listening to a retired 60 something yakking about selling of his(paid for)20mpg diesel pick-up to buy a better economy Buick.

[Manedwolf]

After this break, we'll show you how to convert a Ford Explorer into a playhouse for the kids!

[drewtam]

The smaller SUV looks like less of a gas-guzzler?

That's what I think - it makes them feel better 

My wife's small suv gets 25mpg combined. Compared to a full size car, it gets the same mileage, same price, more room, more cargo, and AWD. Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

[Tallpine]

My wife's small suv gets 25mpg combined.

But yours is probably a true "small" (car based) SUV,
as opposed to merely a smaller "mid-size" truck based vehicle.


We went to the Chevy HHR, which has everything you said except AWD.

Still have the Suburban and pickup - they are paid for and the plates are paid up for life.  Still need to cut/haul wood and get out when the roads are really muddy and/or snowy.  And either one can pull a heavy trailer if necessary.

[mtnbkr]

This has been my argument all along - why the heck would anyone drive an Exploder that gets 18mpg when they could drive a newer Suburban/pickup that gets 19-20mpg

Since when did Suburbans get 19-20mpg?  Last time I heard, they were in the low teens.  As for the Exploder, my folks' gets in the low twenties on the highway, but drops into the low to mid teens around town.  It's a V8 with auto trans.

Chris

[Tallpine]

Last time I heard, they were in the low teens.

You mean around 1974 ?   

[Bogie]

A Harbor Freight trailer costs $300ish, and will fold up for garage storage. Or just leave it outside until Tej bitches...
 
That'll haul a LOT of wood - not "tons," but a thousand pounds here and there adds up.
 
And you can do that with a two-door econocar, like my 1996 Mitsubishi Mirage.
 
Which is paid for.
 
But I still have the 3/4 ton van (also paid for) and the large trailer.
 
Gas bills suck. But I can "rough it" for a few bucks a day, vs. $45-50 for a fleabag motel.
 

[mtnbkr]

Last time I heard, they were in the low teens.

You mean around 1974 ?   

This page: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/noframes/15460.shtml

Says 12mpg town and 17mph highway for a 1999 model.  My 1997 4Runner does 15/20 (did 17/22 before E10 arrived) and is easier to drive in town and offroad since it is shorter.

Chris

[Tallpine]

A Harbor Freight trailer costs $300ish, and will fold up for garage storage. Or just leave it outside until Tej bitches...
 
That'll haul a LOT of wood - not "tons," but a thousand pounds here and there adds up.
 
And you can do that with a two-door econocar, like my 1996 Mitsubishi Mirage.
 

Yeah, like that's gonna go back up in the woods ... 

I can't even get my 2wd 3/4T GMC up on some parts of my land.



The newer Chevy/GMC are supposed to be getting 19-20 hiway.  Some have v-8s that automatically shift to v-4s under lower loads.  Driving in town is not the issue if what you need is to haul a 6-10,000 lb trailer or more.

Compromises sometimes end up being the worst of both

[mtnbkr]

Driving in town is not the issue if what you need is to haul a 6-10,000 lb trailer or more.

And hauling 6k-10k trailers isn't the issue if all you need is the ability to get to deer camp a couple times a year, get out onto the sandy beach of a barrier island, and drive in town the rest of the time.

We all need quivers of cars: The big truck for towing, the smaller 4x4 for unloaded offroading, the big sedan for long road trips, and the econobox/gassipper for commuting and errands.  Just don't have the cash or parking for it...

Chris

[Grandpa Shooter]

This is the issue my Lady and I have been struggling with.  I own an 88 YJ Wrangler set up for back roads/off road use.  Paid for and gets 13-14 mpg.  But it gets there.  I also have a 2002 F150 Supercab 4 x 4 with the Triton V8 5.4 litre.  It is paid for and is used to haul any of my three trailers.  Gets 16-18 uphill or down.  I usually drive only around town (6 miles end to end)

She has a 2005 Nissan Xterra with a 6 cylinder stick shift.  Pays $500 a month and has 2 1/2 years to go.  She gets 21-22 mpg and drives 110 miles a day minimum.  Kelly Bluebook has dropped from $14,000 last year to only $8400 this year.  She owes more than that on it.

The question:  Suck it up and live with the poor mileage and keep making the payments, or try to trade it in on a higher mpg smaller vehicle and be back in dept for 4-5 more years to try to save money on gas.

I don't see how the savings on gas makes up for more debt for more years.  Any one got an answer?

[Regolith]

I got an Explorer several years back because it was small enough to maneuver easily, had somewhat decent gas mileage, and yet was big enough to carry most of my stuff and somewhat decent 4x4 capabilities.  There really isn't anything else besides a mid-size SUV or small truck that would do what I need a vehicle to do, and when I can only afford to have one vehicle....well, its a bit difficult to sacrifice the capacity and offroad capability for something that would cost me less to drive. And doubly so considering the Explorer is paid off. 

Now, if I had the money, I'd probably drop the explorer, replace it with an F150 for offroad and when I need to haul something, and get a vehicle with a good fuel economy to drive around town or go on road trips with with.  Don't have that option now.

[wmenorr67]

Grandpa Shooter,

Do the math like Brad did earlier and you should be able to make a sound decision.  Chances are you are not going to save enough in gas to offset the more than likely higher payments and insurance.

[Tallpine]

Now, if I had the money, I'd probably drop the explorer, replace it with an F150 for offroad and when I need to haul something, and get a vehicle with a good fuel economy to drive around town or go on road trips with with.

My point exactly

[Brad Johnson]

I don't see how the savings on gas makes up for more debt for more years.  Any one got an answer?

The answer is easy.  It doesn't.

Brad

[Grandpa Shooter]

But aren't we supposed to be getting greener so we can save the planet?  That's what the Gorites want us to believe!

[mtnbkr]

If you need a car today, it makes sense to use fuel economy to compare models.  If you don't need a car today, then buying a new one just to save money on gas is asinine.

Chris

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't see how the savings on gas makes up for more debt for more years.  Any one got an answer?

The answer is easy.  It doesn't.

Brad

Vehicles don't last forever.  As they age, repair expenses increase and it becomes an exercise in diminishing returns.  At some point, you're going to have to replace it, and that's when people will abandon the gas guzzlers for more modern, fuel effecient vehicles.