Author Topic: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"  (Read 4987 times)

cosine

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"Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« on: March 08, 2007, 08:20:04 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070308/us_nm/climate_hunters_dc

Quote
Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers

By Ed StoddardThu Mar 8, 7:06 AM ET

As the snow melts from the towering peaks in the distance, Culebra Creek runs fast and the trout are biting. But Van Beecham, a fourth generation fishing guide, is uneasy.

"When I was a kid we never had regular run-off from the mountains in February or March. This is global warming," Beecham said.

The early run-offs are one of many signs of warming temperatures that have caught the attention of hunters and anglers around the United States -- an influential group that has its pulse on the outdoors.

"If you have early runoffs then you have less water in the summer and autumn," said Oregon-based Jack Williams, a senior scientist with conservation group Trout Unlimited.

Trout like cold water and become stressed on hot summer days, because water levels are lower and temperatures are higher than would have been the case if the run-off came at more traditional times from April to June.

"We are finding a lot of concern among anglers and hunters about climate change. These people value traditions and their family and it will affect their children and their ability to enjoy these kinds of outdoor experience," Williams said.

The political run-off could flow as far as the Republican Party, which has broad support from hunters and anglers but which has been reluctant to address global warming.

President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney both hunt and fish. But both also have ties to the oil industry and they have been less than enthusiastic about embracing political measures to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

The vast majority of scientists agree that human activities such as burning fossil fuels are contributing to a rapid warming of the planet that cannot be explained by natural cycles.

WHERE ARE THE GEESE?

Professional hunters have also detected climate-related changes that affect their trade.

"The past season was a bad one for goose hunting ... I would say the clients only got about 40 percent of what they usually get," said Corey Marchbank, a goose hunting guide in the eastern Canadian province of Prince Edward Island.

He said the weather seemed to be the main factor. Mild autumn and winter temperatures meant the geese could stay longer in coastal areas that used to freeze up.

An early grain harvest last season also meant there was less in the fields to attract the birds when the hunting season began in October.

Hunters and anglers notice such things and are behind many conservation measures in the United States, not least because they could not shoot game or catch fish without protected habitat.

"We have a lot of support from duck hunters who know our work in protecting wetlands is vital," said Ben McNitt, communications director for the National Wildlife Federation.

Outdoorsmen were seen as instrumental in getting congressional protection from oil and gas drilling last year for two wild areas: the Valle Vidal in New Mexico and the Rocky Mountain Front in Montana.

"Sportsmen played a critical role in convincing Congress to protect these areas," said Kira Finkler, legislative director for Trout Unlimited.

Groups like Trout Unlimited are now directing political attention to climate change issues and policy.

A commonly cited figure used by the National Wildlife Federation is that more than 40 million Americans hunt and fish and that they spend $70 billion a year on such activities.

Guns, guides, gas, rods, licenses: it all costs money. And the numbers and the cash all add up to influence.

A nationwide survey of licensed hunters and anglers last year commissioned by the National Wildlife Federation found that 76 percent of those polled agreed that global warming was occurring and the same percentage said they had observed climatic changes in the areas where they lived.

Eighty percent of the outdoors-types surveyed said they believed the United States should be a world leader in addressing global warming.

Half of those polled identified themselves as evangelical Christians -- a key support base for the Republican Party, which has been divided on the issue of global warming.

"If the priorities of evangelicals change from social issues like abortion to the environment it could have a profound effect on the Republican Party," said John Green, a political scientist at the University of Akron.

It could make the Republicans embrace more environment issues or it could lose support to the Democrats, Green said.

I know we've had a lot of global warming threads, but this news article has a slightly different tack than the others regarding the subject. I found it interesting because of that.
Andy

wmenorr67

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2007, 08:39:49 AM »
And next year they will complain that the harvest was late, there was too much snow and the spring thaw happened too late.  Don't people realize that just about the time they think they have figured out Mother Nature she changes the rules?
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El Tejon

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2007, 09:17:54 AM »
I WANT MY GLOBAL WARMING AND I WANT IT NOW!

I don't give two you know whats about the Flabby Flannels and their flipping mountains or fish.  They are too fat to walk up any mountains so what are they bitching about? 

Geeese?  They are so thick they block the streets in Indianapolis.  Where are the geese?  Please.  Maybe they could find they if they did not have their faces in plates of food.

Dimwitted Flabby Flannels want to make my guns illegal and now they want to make my gasoline more expensive.  Feckless lumps of carbon.
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griz

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2007, 09:44:34 AM »
Pretty smooth the way he talks about hunters and anglers, then refers to a survey by the National Wildlife Federation.  If you didn't know better, you would assume that they represent hunters and anglers.  Such is the nature of leading the sheep.
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richyoung

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2007, 10:17:29 AM »
I love the bit about "evangelicals" - as one, I can assure you we are not now on the verge, or EVER, going to hop on the Greenie wagon - to assume so betrays a complete ignorance of what evangalism means.
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client32

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2007, 10:27:24 AM »
Quote
WHERE ARE THE GEESE?

Professional hunters have also detected climate-related changes that affect their trade.

"The past season was a bad one for goose hunting ... I would say the clients only got about 40 percent of what they usually get," said Corey Marchbank, a goose hunting guide in the eastern Canadian province of Prince Edward Island.

It all depends on where you are.

We always have some flocks hang around this area every year.  This past year, there seemed to be more than normal.  It was a kind of funny watching the flocks.  They cold weather has hung around for so long, they just didn't know what to do.

And I actually went goose hunting for the first time this past year.
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Eleven Mike

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2007, 11:39:52 AM »
Quote
Half of those polled identified themselves as evangelical Christians -- a key support base for the Republican Party, which has been divided on the issue of global warming.
  First I've heard of it.  I know there's some guys like Rick Warren and Tony Campolo that are worried about it, but there's no way we're split on that issue.  At least not a split worth mentioning.   

MechAg94

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2007, 12:12:19 PM »
I notice these different tactics, they can't actually prove artificial GW is happening so they just write articles assume it is and pointing to other problems. 

What exactly is an "evangelical" Christian as opposed to any other Christian? 
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Eleven Mike

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2007, 02:07:23 PM »
In common usage, an evangelical is a conservative Protestant.  Sometimes, a distinction is made between evangelicals and the old-line liturgical Protestant denominations (Anglican, Lutheran).
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism
Quote
The word evangelicalism usually refers to religious practices and traditions which are found in conservative, Protestant Christianity. Evangelicalism is typified by an emphasis on evangelism, a personal experience of conversion, biblically oriented faith and a belief in the relevance of Christian faith to cultural issues. In the late 20th century and early 21st century, Protestant people, churches and social movements have often been called evangelical in contrast to Protestant liberalism.

Standing Wolf

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2007, 04:00:52 PM »
All this "global warming" idiocy is making me nostalgic for hula hoops, the last fad I recall that had any substantive value.
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SteveS

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2007, 05:18:45 PM »
Wow, they found some people unhappy with the president.  Surprising, considering what his ratings are.  There are people worried about climate in every profession, hobby, group, etc., so it isn't surprising that they found some sportsmen.

As for evangelicals, I have heard some rumblings from some large groups, such as the NAE.

http://melissarogers.typepad.com/melissa_rogers/2007/03/laurie_goodstei.html

http://melissarogers.typepad.com/melissa_rogers/2007/03/nae_head_suppor.html
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SteveS

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2007, 05:46:55 PM »
I WANT MY GLOBAL WARMING AND I WANT IT NOW!

I don't give two you know whats about the Flabby Flannels and their flipping mountains or fish.  They are too fat to walk up any mountains so what are they bitching about? 

Geeese?  They are so thick they block the streets in Indianapolis.  Where are the geese?  Please.  Maybe they could find they if they did not have their faces in plates of food.

Dimwitted Flabby Flannels want to make my guns illegal and now they want to make my gasoline more expensive.  Feckless lumps of carbon.

Sheesh.....Did the FF's beat you up and take your lunch money?  Steal your prom date?  Give you a wedgie in study hall?

I wouldn't worry too much about this article.  A few fishing guides are worried.  Big deal.

Quote
A nationwide survey of licensed hunters and anglers last year commissioned by the National Wildlife Federation found that 76 percent of those polled agreed that global warming was occurring and the same percentage said they had observed climatic changes in the areas where they lived.

Doesn't say that they support any kind of change or that they are ready to canonize Al Gore.

Quote
Eighty percent of the outdoors-types surveyed said they believed the United States should be a world leader in addressing global warming.

Must be a differnt survey, since they don't refer to them as hunters and anglers.  Surprise, a bunch of granola-crunching hippies think global warming should be addressed.

Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.

Mannlicher

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2007, 07:01:37 PM »
Yawn........

global warming activists posting (maybe real) thoughts of (maybe real) people about how global warming is going to (maybe really) hurt some aspects of outdoor activities.

Cosmoline

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 10:57:12 PM »
What are you guys smoking?  There used to be skiing in the Oregon coast range.  I remember Mt. Hood slopes nearly snowless many winters starting in the late 80's, something that never happened when my grandparents skied it.  There's no doubt the weather is changing.  Heck the COLUMBIA used to freeze solid on a fairly regular basis.  U.S. Grant had a scheme going to mine the ice and ship it down to California before the CW.  When was the last time you saw cars driving across the waters of the Columbia?

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2007, 02:35:38 AM »
Cosmo, climate is changing, it is getting colder:  http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0701/S00011.htm

Steve, no, the Flabby Flannels didn't take my lunch money, but they want my guns.
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Iain

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2007, 03:19:12 AM »
Cosmo, climate is changing, it is getting colder:  http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0701/S00011.htm

Steve, no, the Flabby Flannels didn't take my lunch money, but they want my guns.

I guess if I walked into your office and presented you with an article that I claimed 'proved' everything you know as a lawyer is wrong (and yet did no such thing) you'd think I was a crank right? Or if I showed up on THR claiming that I knew a SEEL who told me that .223 bullets spin end over end in the air and that's why they are more lethal than any other, except .50bmg which will blow your head off if it passes within eight feet - crank again right?

I wouldn't have the nerve to make such claims, being as I am no expert on firearms or GW. So with that in mind, tell me a few things about this following graph -



Take a look at the space between 1995 and 2000 - notice something? Why then would you suppose that 1998 was picked as the starting year for that article? Notice any reasonably close correlations between the blue, red and green lines?

Is it as simple as one article in a newspaper/website providing the answer with no context, no wider understanding?
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MechAg94

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2007, 05:12:14 AM »
Individual local conditions do not prove GW.  Local conditions can change for any number of reasons.

25 years doesn't tell me much either.  Show me that graph for the last 100 years or more. 

Iain, do you have link to that graph?  Is that supposed to be an average world wide sampling? Your graph ain't worth much either without more information.  Smiley
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Iain

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2007, 05:38:27 AM »
The reason I included that graph was because it included satellite data and surface data. Satellite data only began in 1978 as that graph shows, there is no red or green line before that point. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_temperature_measurements

Another graph shows temperature anomaly between 1860 and 2003-ish - here See the description below it as to what 'zero' is.

Here is another graph pertinent to '1998' issue. Note the 1998 peak and the corresponding El Nino.
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Cosmoline

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2007, 07:45:08 AM »
Quote
Individual local conditions do not prove GW.  Local conditions can change for any number of reasons.

25 years doesn't tell me much either.  Show me that graph for the last 100 years or more. 

OK, when was the last time people ice skated on the Thames?  It used to freeze solid from time to time, and they'd hold a big river fair out on it.  If there's even a bit of SNOW in London now they freak out.

Even the Dutch are having a hard time finding enough ice to run their races.  That whole country was frozen solid for months in the old days, much like Anchorage is today.  And speaking of Alaska, we've had to move the start of the Iditarod from Anchorage to Wasilla and then from Wasilla to Willow in search of reliable March snowpack.

The climate is warming for most of the world, that's impossible to dispute.  If you don't believe it, then I invite you to re-start one of those skiing facilities in the coast range.  Whether it's caused by sun spots or carbon dioxide or something else is not as certain. 

mtnbkr

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2007, 08:05:41 AM »
Steve, no, the Flabby Flannels didn't take my lunch money, but they want my guns.
Um, no I don't, nor does any other hunter I know want them either.  We have our own, inlcluding some nifty homeland security rifles. 

Chris

SteveS

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2007, 10:10:47 AM »
Steve, no, the Flabby Flannels didn't take my lunch money, but they want my guns.
Um, no I don't, nor does any other hunter I know want them either.  We have our own, inlcluding some nifty homeland security rifles. 

Chris

I don't want them either.  On second thought, I do.  Drive them up to Michigan.  I promise to take good care of them.
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crt360

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2007, 12:42:14 PM »
Steve, no, the Flabby Flannels didn't take my lunch money, but they want my guns.
Um, no I don't, nor does any other hunter I know want them either.  We have our own, inlcluding some nifty homeland security rifles. 

Chris

I don't want them either.  On second thought, I do.  Drive them up to Michigan.  I promise to take good care of them.

I'll take them.  I have no problem hunting with black semi-autos.  I don't wear much flannel (too hot).  Due to the global warming, I'm considering a loincloth and spear (low carbon footprint).  angel
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MechAg94

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2007, 03:07:46 PM »
Quote
Individual local conditions do not prove GW.  Local conditions can change for any number of reasons.

25 years doesn't tell me much either.  Show me that graph for the last 100 years or more. 

OK, when was the last time people ice skated on the Thames?  It used to freeze solid from time to time, and they'd hold a big river fair out on it.  If there's even a bit of SNOW in London now they freak out.

Even the Dutch are having a hard time finding enough ice to run their races.  That whole country was frozen solid for months in the old days, much like Anchorage is today.  And speaking of Alaska, we've had to move the start of the Iditarod from Anchorage to Wasilla and then from Wasilla to Willow in search of reliable March snowpack.

The climate is warming for most of the world, that's impossible to dispute.  If you don't believe it, then I invite you to re-start one of those skiing facilities in the coast range.  Whether it's caused by sun spots or carbon dioxide or something else is not as certain. 

They also used to grow wine grapes in Great Britain.  Just a little further back though. 
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Iain

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2007, 03:38:02 PM »
They also used to grow wine grapes in Great Britain.  Just a little further back though. 

Another 'gotcha' statement. Quite a lot of wine is grown in the UK now, in fact sparkling whites from the south-east are attracting some very serious critical acclaim as the geology is similar to that of the Champagne region. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/07/medieval-warmth-and-english-wine/

Cosmoline - there were very few ice fairs, they probably represent anomalous conditions rather than necessarily being indicative of the controversial 'little ice age'.
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brimic

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Re: "Climate is big issue for U.S. hunters, anglers"
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2007, 05:20:58 PM »
Quote
Even the Dutch are having a hard time finding enough ice to run their races.  That whole country was frozen solid for months in the old days, much like Anchorage is today.  And speaking of Alaska, we've had to move the start of the Iditarod from Anchorage to Wasilla and then from Wasilla to Willow in search of reliable March snowpack.

The climate is warming for most of the world, that's impossible to dispute.  If you don't believe it, then I invite you to re-start one of those skiing facilities in the coast range.  Whether it's caused by sun spots or carbon dioxide or something else is not as certain.

The land on which my house sits was once under 1/4 mile of ice. I'm not so sure things were better back then than the way they are now. laugh

Wisconsin has had a few off years with snow also. A few years ago they had to truck in snow for the yearly Snowmobile races in Eagle River, it might have been the same year that they almost had to cancel the Birkenbeiner race- I think they ran it on a shorter course than usual. This year we have more snow than we've had in 10-15 years, and the coldest february in about 20 years.
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