Author Topic: Historiographical pet peeves  (Read 786 times)

Perd Hapley

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Historiographical pet peeves
« on: September 12, 2022, 03:33:40 PM »
As a Bible-beating, religious right, MAGA Republican, I’m not supposed to say this, but I am getting a little tired of hearing (or reading) people say “America was founded by men and women fleeing religious persecution.

It may be a true statement, but it tends to mislead. One could likewise say, truthfully, that America was founded by slave-owners, but that also tends to mislead. Both claims exclude more truth than they include. “Slave-owner” describes many, but not all, of those who drafted our founding documents, and built our early government. “Religious refugee” describes many, but not all, of those who came to the 13 colonies, or immigrated to early America.

Some religious people I know seem to believe that the American founding went like this:

Columbus brings the Pilgrims across in the Mayflower
The Pilgrims found 13 colonies
Icky taxes
Independence!
Minutemen snipers shoot the British soldiers as they mill around, drinking tea with extended pinky fingers.
As the British retreat across the Red Sea, God smites them with a great wave.
Yay!

What are your peeves?

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JN01

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2022, 04:33:42 PM »
According to the 1619 Project, America was founded by white people to perpetuate slavery or something. Much of our view of history is either misconstrued or oversimplified.

Some of the colonists were exiled criminals who probably didn't give much thought to religion.

K Frame

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2022, 04:49:24 PM »
My biggest one is, and will always be, that the "Civil War wasn't about slavery."
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WLJ

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2022, 04:49:45 PM »
I have a metric load
But off the top of head

Vikings had horns on their helmets
Cleopatra was black
People up to the time of Columbus thought the world was flat
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Devonai

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2022, 06:20:36 PM »
The "Pilgrims" were headed toward the Hudson River, got turned around the southeast corner of Cape Cod by rough/shallow water, ended up in Provincetown Harbor for 5 weeks, before relocating to present-day Plymouth and deciding there to establish a permanent colony.
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Bogie

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2022, 07:14:32 PM »
I see So Damn Many people who are glorifying Egyptian culture, and even probably assuming that they are reincarnated Egyptian royalty (there are t-shirts that claim that!), that I Really Need To Work to not say *expletive deleted*it about that whole Egyptian slavery thing while at work.
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K Frame

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2022, 07:26:55 PM »
I have a metric load
But off the top of head

Vikings had horns on their helmets
Cleopatra was black
People up to the time of Columbus thought the world was flat


Jesus... everyone knows that Cleopatra had horns and Vikings were black!

WTF are schools teaching these days?
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HankB

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2022, 10:14:48 PM »
Jesus... everyone knows that Cleopatra had horns and Vikings were black!

WTF are schools teaching these days?
Of course vikings (or at least, Norsemen) were black and had horns on their helmets - we have pictures!

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Pb

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2022, 10:46:53 PM »
White people invented slavery.

Every major civilization that I have ever heard of practiced slavery for almost the entirety of human civilization.  Abolition of slavery was finally successful over most of the world do to the actions of white Western Christians, primarily the British.  The absence of slavery is a historical aberration.

People who owned slaves were evil.

Are they also damning the millions of Africans, Arabs, American Indians, Asians, etc who owned slaves over the course of millennia?

HankB

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2022, 12:09:39 AM »
. . . Are they also damning the millions of Africans, Arabs, American Indians, Asians, etc who owned slaves over the course of millennia?
How about the ones who still do?

Don't forget that so many slaves who died on slave ships were thrown overboard while crossing the Atlantic, even today, centuries later, sharks are still swimming the route.
Of course Cleopatra was black - aren't all Macedonian Greeks?
The Conquistadors forced the peaceful, idyllic Aztecs to cut the hearts out of captives with stone knives as sacrifices to Spain.
Fred Flintstone's car and cavemen's campfires caused early global warming that melted the glaciers.
White women who wear hoop earrings are culturally appropriating Black culture. This includes Roman women 2000 years ago and Sumerians some 2500 years before the Romans.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Perd Hapley

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2022, 09:06:19 AM »
According to the 1619 Project, America was founded by white people to perpetuate slavery or something.

The woke seem unable to see the lunacy of suggesting that white Europeans based their whole culture(s), not on what would further their own interests (or would glorify God, etc), but on being mean to people that live very far away.
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WLJ

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2022, 09:11:27 AM »

The natives of  ________ (insert wherever) were living in complete and total harmony with each other and the land until the white man came along and ruin everything.
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Pb

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2022, 09:56:40 AM »
The Second Amendment was written to preserve slavery.

That is one of the latest attacks on gun rights.  In addition to having zero evidence in support of this idea, several abolitionist states adopted RKBA provisions in their state constitutions early on... to preserve the slavery that they did not have, apparently.

Tuco

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2022, 02:43:49 PM »
Stonehenge was built by the dinosaurs
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MechAg94

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2022, 08:27:03 PM »
The Second Amendment was written to preserve slavery.

That is one of the latest attacks on gun rights.  In addition to having zero evidence in support of this idea, several abolitionist states adopted RKBA provisions in their state constitutions early on... to preserve the slavery that they did not have, apparently.
That and the some of the first gun control in the US was enacted because people were scared of slaves with guns. 
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MechAg94

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2022, 08:27:34 PM »
Stonehenge was built by the dinosaurs
Now that is something I would like to see if you come across it again.
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HankB

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2022, 11:02:41 PM »
Today's BATF has its roots dating back to Ancient Rome, when Emperor Caligula created the Bureau of Spirits, Smokes, and Spears to help keep the plebeians in line.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Perd Hapley

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2022, 11:25:48 PM »
The Great Party Switch is another myth that needs to die, though it seems to have been overtaken by a common misconception that the parties were "switched" from the beginning.

http://tps1.ning.com/forum/topics/race-baiting-rangel-says-some-republicans-think-they-won-the-civi
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2022, 11:31:28 PM »
Ever notice how Columbus "didn't really discover America," but still gets the blame for getting Evil White People to show up here?
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WLJ

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2022, 11:02:35 AM »
AR-10/15s are Direct Impingement

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zahc

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2022, 03:15:37 PM »
The treaty of Versailles pinned guilt on Germany and imposed crushing reparations which lead/contributed to the rise of the nazis and to the second war. When in fact it didn't impose any unreasonable guilt, the reparations were not crushing, but pretty reasonable, and Germany never paid them anyway, so they couldn't have been crushing or lead to the next war.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2022, 05:00:52 PM »
The 3/5 clause is everybody's favorite part of US history to get wrong.
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gunsmith

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2022, 05:45:15 PM »
the second amendment was for muskets only
( the people who say this still will put you in prison for carrying a musket in times square )
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Bogie

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2022, 07:04:44 PM »
I'm really tired of racist people who "cannot be racist."
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WLJ

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Re: Historiographical pet peeves
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2022, 09:05:35 AM »
The treaty of Versailles pinned guilt on Germany and imposed crushing reparations which lead/contributed to the rise of the nazis and to the second war. When in fact it didn't impose any unreasonable guilt, the reparations were not crushing, but pretty reasonable, and Germany never paid them anyway, so they couldn't have been crushing or lead to the next war.

TIK has been doing some YT videos on that showing that the reparations were actually rather mild.
IIRC The Great War Channel has some too.
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