Republican strategy and the Fiscal Cliff.

[Scout26]

Do they go with the "let it burn" approach or pass a budget in the house that has some tax hikes (on say incomes form all sources above $1.5mil) along with 4 dollars in spending cuts for every $1 in new taxes.  Then if Obama and Reid choose to do nothing (which appears to be their strategy), they then can not blame it on the Republicans.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/29/second-look-at-tax-hikes-on-everyone/

[RaspberrySurprise]

The democrats will always blame it on the republicans. Giving them what they want is just letting things burn in a slightly different manner.

[zxcvbob]

Obama's strategy is to get the Republicans to renege on their [ill-advised Grover Norquest] tax pledge while getting nothing in return.  The tax increases he's asking for are not large enough to accomplish anything else meaningful, and there's been no talk of spending cuts -- just hints maybe of cuts 10 years down the road.  

The Republicans should walk out.  Whatever happens they'll get the blame.  So let it burn.

[kgbsquirrel]

They absolutely would do well to stage a mass walk-out when the subject of hiking taxes comes up on the floor, but they aren't referred to as The Stupid Party for nothing.

[MillCreek]

So other than running the ATR group, has Grover Norquist ever served in elected office or run anything? 

[Monkeyleg]

The economy likely will show at least some improvement, unless we do a Greece. So Obama is going to take credit for any improvement.

If the Republicans break their no-tax pledge, and the economy improves, Obama will say that his policies worked, but the Republican base will know they didn't and be furious with Republican congressmen for raising taxes.

If the Republicans hold firm and don't raise taxes, they'll be held responsible if the economy only improves a little. Obama and the media would say that we would have a full recovery if the Republicans had cooperated.

I've read, and sometimes agree with the argument, that the Republicans should give Obama every last thing he wants. But they should be very vocal and very public, emphasizing that they are doing exactly what Obama wants, and that citizens should remember that, and the Republicans will remind them of that, in a year or two. That assumes that the media will cover things fairly, though, so the idea won't work.

[Hawkmoon]

Obama's strategy is to get the Republicans to renege on their [ill-advised Grover Norquest] tax pledge while getting nothing in return.  The tax increases he's asking for are not large enough to accomplish anything else meaningful, and there's been no talk of spending cuts -- just hints maybe of cuts 10 years down the road.  

The Republicans should walk out.  Whatever happens they'll get the blame.  So let it burn.

Obama's approach is like J. Wellington Wimpy in the old Popeye cartoon series: "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." The Big O wants to raise taxes a little while INCREASING spending by a lot. He doesn't seem to understand that you can't get blood from a stone, and that this country is effectively and functionally bankrupt.

I disagree with Monkeyleg. I don't think the economy is going to improve. I think it's going to tank -- worse than it has already.

[Perd Hapley]

The democrats will always blame it on the republicans. Giving them what they want is just letting things burn in a slightly different manner.

This infinity.

Abstention is one thing. But anything as dramatic as a walk-out will just be parlayed into more media outrage at Republicans refusing to work with the Democrats.

[GigaBuist]

So other than running the ATR group, has Grover Norquist ever served in elected office or run anything? 

Nope.  Professional lobbyist. ATR is just the most known movement.  No other job that I know of.  I think he came up with his "no tax hikes ever" idea when he was like 14 and stuck with it.  I could be wrong on the age.  If I am it was probably 12.

I honestly have no idea why anybody gives him any thought.  I'd give the opinion of the immigrant Indian family running the liquor store around the corner more weight than this guy on taxes.  At least they've got actual productive jobs and are running a business. 

[roo_ster]

Republican strategy will consist of running toward the nearest news camera, ostentatiously committing seppuku, and then asking the camera crew, "Will you love me now?"

[lee n. field]

Republican stragedy and the Fiscal Cliff.

Republicans have a strategy?

[RocketMan]

Republicans have a strategy?

Yep.  It's pretty much begging people to like them.

[TommyGunn]

Yep.  It's pretty much begging people to like them.

They are not smart enough to do that .........

[zxcvbob]

They are not smart enough to do that .........

Daring people to like them?

[Boomhauer]

The Republicans are boringly predictable. A controversial issue will come up, that they should oppose 100%, many of them will, and then a group of "moderate" republicans (aka RINOs, and its usually the same jackwagons everytime) will vote with the Dems every *expletive deleted*ing time. They are the idiots in the scary movie that throw open the door for the axe murderer.

Yet the Dems seldom suffer from the same issue...

With "friends" like these...

[longeyes]

The only strategy, when you are speeding toward a cliff, is to yank the emergency brake and pull hard left, then hope for the best.  Slowing down won't work.

[makattak]

The only strategy, when you are speeding toward a cliff, is to yank the emergency brake and pull hard left right, then hope for the best.  Slowing down won't work.

Fixed that.

[longeyes]

Fixed that.

OK. :)

Read this this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/us/politics/pushing-gop-to-negotiate-obama-ends-giving-in.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121203&_r=0

[grampster]

The Republican response is so simple. 

Proposal #1.  Media announced over this last week that the Middle Class financial position is at the same level as in 1969.  R's should say that if the Democrats really care about the Middle Class, here's the deal.  Then the R's in the house should vote out the duplicate of the 1969 budget and give it to the Senate. Include in that budget a continuance of the Bush Tax Cuts except for those who have an yearly gross income from all sources of over 1.5 million dollars and tax that at 50%.

Proposal #2.  Compromise using the 2001 budget (Beginning of the new millennium) and the same tax proposal.

[CAnnoneer]

It no longer matters what Republicans do. The system is way out of control, because reporting is so ridiculously biased. If there is an agreement, Obama will be portrayed as the savior of the nation who fought over the obstructionist conservatives. If there is no agreement, the Reps will be blamed for everything that ensues. Showing up and giving Obama everything he asks for will also not work, because there would be no way to criticize him over the outcome, as they agreed to it. It is a diabolical trap.

The way to break out of the trap is to form and maintain a principled but practical position. Reps have been incapable of doing so for a long long time, because they have been shell-shocked by the media and lame advisors. If they ever want to be relevant again, Reps have to follow the Margaret Thatcher model - "first you win the argument, then you win the election." For a long time now, the Reps have been trying to do the opposite. Then they are surprised it does not work.

[Ben]

It no longer matters what Republicans do. The system is way out of control, because reporting is so ridiculously biased. If there is an agreement, Obama will be portrayed as the savior of the nation who fought over the obstructionist conservatives. If there is no agreement, the Reps will be blamed for everything that ensues. Showing up and giving Obama everything he asks for will also not work, because there would be no way to criticize him over the outcome, as they agreed to it. It is a diabolical trap.

QFT. I see no way out for them, at least for the "fiscal cliff" stuff in the short term. Even if they do as Monkeyleg mentioned, and completely agree to everything Obama wants to put the ball in his court, the media will still blame any failures of that policy on the Republicans, or extraneous factors, or <insert excuse here> and shield Obama.

[longeyes]

It no longer matters what Republicans do. The system is way out of control, because reporting is so ridiculously biased. If there is an agreement, Obama will be portrayed as the savior of the nation who fought over the obstructionist conservatives. If there is no agreement, the Reps will be blamed for everything that ensues. Showing up and giving Obama everything he asks for will also not work, because there would be no way to criticize him over the outcome, as they agreed to it. It is a diabolical trap.

The way to break out of the trap is to form and maintain a principled but practical position. Reps have been incapable of doing so for a long long time, because they have been shell-shocked by the media and lame advisors. If they ever want to be relevant again, Reps have to follow the Margaret Thatcher model - "first you win the argument, then you win the election." For a long time now, the Reps have been trying to do the opposite. Then they are surprised it does not work.

The way out of the trap is to stop playing a game you cannot win.

Take your chips and go home.

[Ron]

Congress should present the Republican budget to the President.

Once the President rejects it, party line vote to give the President whatever he asks.

The only way out is for the public to see the Dems own the whole enchilada and everything that entails.

[slingshot]

The whole discussion or negotiation is already negative for the Republican Party.  They can not win either way... fiscal cliff, they'll get blamed; rasie taxes, they'll get blamed; keep taxes at present level, Democrats get the credit.  It is an engrained position propagated by the media over and over again that the Democratic Party is for the "working man" and for those that can help themselves.  The Republicans are always the bad guy regardless of whether they are right or not.

Hence..  

The Republicans should walk out.  Whatever happens they'll get the blame.  So let it burn.

They have no other choice other than to obstain if they want to remain consistant with party ideals.

Nobody listens anymore.... I have figured that one out.  A certain segment listens to Fox News and the rest listen to the more liberal media.  Most newspapers will not bring up the past unless it is negative to the Republica Party.  Get used to it.

[Ron]

The whole discussion or negotiation is already negative for the Republican Party.  They can not win either way... fiscal cliff, they'll get blamed; rasie taxes, they'll get blamed; keep taxes at present level, Democrats get the credit.  It is an engrained position propagated by the media over and over again that the Democratic Party is for the "working man" and for those that can help themselves.  The Republicans are always the bad guy regardless of whether they are right or not.

Hence..  
They have no other choice other than to abstain if they want to remain consistent with party ideals.

If they abstain does the Dem vote still pass the legislation? If yes, then I'm good with an abstention on principle. The key is the public has to associate the mess with the statists.